|
|
Post by ZephyrPhantom on Nov 4, 2022 20:07:57 GMT
ZephyrPhantom I guess it is because the prompt in the first post was difficult. To say the truth, I chose to push the last time I won here for I hadn't understood what to wreck is. This is the most understandable for me. You mean, to wreck is to go through the eye of a needle to aim on new kind of broken card which the most of expert players tend to look over, like Psychatog. Right? In other words, Figure of Destiny had a potential to be a wrecked card for it is the first virtual LV up card but Ascendant Spirit is a pushed card even if it was more efficient and completely broken. Updating the first post with more clear explanation might make your intent more readable though it is not necessary that changing it into I quoted. Sure, I can add that explanation in the OP when I get a moment. (Your understanding is pretty much correct for what the challenge is about) I also think it would help if people explicitly said "Wreck" or "Push" because I wasn't sure what to make of the prompt saying "Break" - I thought it was meant to be Wreck, but from the judging it seems like it was supposed to be Push. So I may also mention that. |
|
|
|
Post by vizionarius on Nov 4, 2022 20:30:16 GMT
ZephyrPhantom and twintania, sorry that I caused a confusion. My decision was based on whether the card maintained the "spirit of the card" or not, while still pushing the boundary towards being "broken." While I felt that ZephyrPhantom's entry definitely was more "wrecked," it deviated a little too much from the use of the original card; twintania's entry felt more like a pushed version of the original. Essentially, I judged based on both how much the card was pushed, and whether it still maintained the feel of the card. ZephyrPhantom's card felt like a different card due to all the drawing and discarding that it enabled. The life gain and cumulative upkeep felt inconsequential to how it was to be used; whereas twintania's entry leaned in on both of those aspects, which were the major aspects of the original card. Hope that helps clarify my decision process.
|
|
|
|
Post by melono on Nov 4, 2022 21:37:00 GMT
Tibalt, Blood-Debtor 
Legendary Planeswalker - Tibalt   , Discard X cards at random: Draw X cards. X can't be more than 3.  : ~ deals 3 damage to any target. This ability costs 1 loyalty less for each card you discarded this turn.  : Gain control of all creatures until end of turn. Untap them. They gain haste and trample until end of turn.  PS: The trample is just in case of flash or man-lands or whatever.
|
|
|
|
Post by hydraheadhunter on Nov 5, 2022 18:36:24 GMT
Might be a bit too much, but I think I've got the spirit of the card intact.
Tibalt, Travail Victuoso
Two Red
Legendary Planeswalker — Tibalt
+2: Target Player draws two cards then discards a card at random.
-X: Tibalt deals 4 minus X damage to target creature with power three or less. At the beginning of the next end step, tap and gain control of each creature dealt damage this way. X cannot be zero.
-6: You get an emblem with, “Players discard cards into exile. When they do, you may cast them or put them into their owner’s graveyard. Cards cast this way cost 1 less to cast.” Each player discards their hand.
Starting Loyalty; 1
|
Thoughts:
The first thing I always hear people shit on og Tibalt for is that his plus just doesn't generate enough card advantage to be worth the downside. Because I feel the random discard is integral to his identity, I did three things to change this. - Made the ability more rewarding by changing it from a +1 to a +2. To compensate this change, he now has the lowest starting loyalty possible. This keeps him at about the same short term fragility.
- Increased the amount of cards drawn so you net a card into hand.
- Made it a targetted ability to facilitate potential narset-rack shenanagains or nekusar strategies.
The original Tibalt's second ability doesn't feel tied to his identity at all so I scraped it.
Because his ult feels lack-luster as an ult and is basically impossible to satisfyingly use; if an opponent has enough creatures to make an insurrection worth it, they generally have enough creatures to murderize Tibalt or keep him from ulting. I want to like insurrection, but it just doesn't work on planeswalkers that can't defend themselves. To that end, I made several changes. - Shifted it to the second ability. This make it so it doesn't need to compete with the perception of being a game-winner
- Shifted it to a permanent, but slow act of treason rather than a temporary insurrection.
- Restricted legal targets to small creatures.
- Walled the treason effect behind the ability to survive a bolt, if you want to steal a creature instead of remove it you need to invest the loyalty to do so.
Flavorily, Tibalt's torturing the target creature; torture doesn't work on targets with strong wills, but tibalt's sadistism mean most creatures that suffer his... 'advanced recruitment tactics' don't survive. The loyalty cost represents you convincing him to restrain himself. Normally treason is fast and temporary, but the logic here is that anyone that experience's tibalt's sessions is going to be fiercely loyal to avoid the need for a secondary 'reeducation'... as soon as they recover.
Lastly, the half-devil Planeswalker needed a new ult. I thought tibalt goes around leaving suffering-shattered sanities in his wake, so madness would be a good way to go, but not just your madness: everyones. For his ult, he first teaches you how to harness your own madness and exploit the madness of others, and then he unleashes hell by making everyone hellbent. The perfect ult for the bastard (affectionate).
To be honest, Travail Victuoso's a bit too pushed as a two-drop for my sensibilities. I'd want to reign in the second two abilities or increase his cost, but I was asked to WRECK Fiend-Blooded, so here we are.
|
|
|
|
Post by gluestick248 on Nov 6, 2022 19:10:50 GMT
I tried to stay close to the OG, but made it a little more symmetrical. Tibalt, Fiend of Nephalia Legendary Planeswalker — Tibalt  Each player may discard a card at random. Each player who does draws a card.  ~ deals damage equal to the number of cards in target opponent’s hand to that player, then deals damage equal to the number of cards in your hand to you.  ~ deals 1 damage to each creature. Gain control of those creatures until end of turn and untap them. They gain haste until end of turn. The lets everyone in on the fun, and doesn’t mill you when your hand is empty. The gets a major discount (and you can do it on the first turn!) but hits you as well. That is, if you have cards in your hand The is cheaper than Fiend-Blooded’s, but acts as a side-grade, since you can’t attack with all the X/1’s on the table. |
|
|
|
Post by twintania on Nov 16, 2022 0:33:42 GMT
Will judge it within one or two days.
|
|
|
|
Post by twintania on Nov 16, 2022 21:05:59 GMT
{Tibalt, Blood-Debtor/ melono } Very tough for the first ability. Even aggro decks will go to a great deal of trouble to dismiss him. It might work well as an advantage engine in Modern or Legacy with Life from the Loam or Squee, Goblin Nabob though it will be hard to use in a same way in Standard. And sometimes it occurs accidents like that you discard all lands in your hand at turn 2 and not supplied at turn 3, or you discard reanimate spells and draw heavy creature. This is a nice camouflage to conceal the fact this PW is broken until that people notice 2 mana PW with +3 ability is insane. Second ability is not so good unless you discarded 3 or more cards. It's not easy to discard 3 or more card without advantage loss so this is probably valid cost. Ult is also fine. To kill him, your opponent is forced to enter more and more creatures and it makes the ult more stronger. This Tibalt would not be hard to survive until reaching 6 or more loyalty so it can be a good game ender in an aggro deck or a deck with a good sacrifice outlet. {Tibalt, Travail Victuoso/ hydraheadhunter } Is Victuoso a blend of victim or vicious + virtuoso? I am glad if you inform me. The first one is nicely broken. It is real that random discarding is hard to control but in abstractly thinking, it gives you a hand advantage. Thinking it Jace Berelen's -1 ability is now +2 for this 2 mana PW, it is clearly broken. And second ability is also extraordinarily low cost for it is an upper ability of 3 damage for -1. The restriction is preventing it from being a strictly better but it is too enough for a 2 mana PW. The first player's Victuoso on turn 2 is almost a death sentence against non-red aggro for 2/2 is burnt by -1 and 3/3 is stolen by -2. With help of removal spells, it easily suppress the battlefield. Ult is also low costed for a 2 mana PW with +2 ability so nicely pushed. Because of this ult, control deck is also tough choice in an environment in where this Tibalt exists. And I love the flavor of torturing and your sleight balancing in spite of a contradictional mission against wrecking. {Tibalt, Fiend of Nephalia/ gluestick248 } The first ability seems to be weaker than the original for it gives your opponent an choice to use his amazing looting. If you cares about milling for nothing, adding a "may" on the original ability works though it doesn't let everyone in on the fun. The challenge this time is aimed to create a broken or almost broken card so this change is too gentle to WRECK him. -2 is almost better than the og for life is easily managed compared to loyalty cost. It would be a better choice in your Howling Mine-Ebony Owl Netsuke kind of deck or sideboard for control deck rather than the og. On the whole, this is pushed or tuned but far from wrecked. For the presence of gentle +1 ability, I am confused whether this ult got to be more successful than the original. That's true that it can release ult 1 turn faster but in exchange of it, you give an opponent a looting chance three times and it brings them a chance to reach a measure for it. {winner} melono Both melono and hydraheadhunter's seem to be well broken. So the focus is that how subtly concealed the brokenness is according to the Code of Wreckery. Hydra's one is more blatant, it supplies an apparent card advantage and can deal 3 damage with no device. On the other hand, melono's +3 ability gives him a simple toughness and it will be easier to be overlooked than Victioso's power. And the high volatility which sometimes brings you mana screw or bankrupt of your plan will also delay the time the true power of him is known. |
|
|
|
Post by melono on Nov 16, 2022 22:03:21 GMT
Thanks for the win! I was thinking of making the random a straight discard. Woulda made it less volatile (and fun though). Anyhoo, there are a couple of cards that have a nice 2 for one that could use a good boost: wreck into a stronger Penumbra creature. Make a new penumbra creature or remake an old one. |
|
|
|
Post by hydraheadhunter on Nov 16, 2022 22:11:55 GMT
Is Victuoso a blend of victim or vicious + virtuoso? I am glad if you inform me. Close; you got that it is a blend, and your blend candidates work, but I intended it to be a blend of vice + virtuoso.
See, virtuoso comes from the same root as virtue, but tibalt ain't a virtuous character and is better characterized as a master of sadistic vice.
So, it's a pun turning virtuous mastery into masterful vice.
Probably should spelled it different if I wanted that to come across more clearly, maybe viccuoso or viscuoso, but eeeeh.
|
|
|
|
Post by hydraheadhunter on Nov 16, 2022 22:44:37 GMT
I hope this non-creature is acceptable to the prompt.
Penumbral Mantle
Two generic and two green
Enchantment — Aura
Enchant non-black creature
Whenever the enchanted creature dies, create a token that is a copy of it, except that that token has no mana cost and is black.
FT: Your first life was bathed in light; your second life is now blessed by shadow.
|
I really want to call it "Penumbral Umbra" but that'd imply that it's got totem armor given the canon conventions, and that's not something I'd want to imply. |
|
|
|
Post by ZephyrPhantom on Nov 17, 2022 19:16:23 GMT
This is a weird idea but I think it was interesting and funny enough so I want to give it a shot: Penumbra Ixidron    Creature - Illusion  Flash When ~ enters the battlefield, creatures you control gain “When this creature dies, create a token that's a copy of that creature, except it's 2/2 black Illusion." ~’s power and toughness are each equal to the number of Illusion creatures on the battlefield. */* "The shadows betray you because they belong to me."I used Whisperwood Elemental for mechanic templating. |
|
|
|
Post by vizionarius on Nov 17, 2022 19:37:53 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by twintania on Nov 17, 2022 20:59:53 GMT
*Wreck*  The art is here. I can't find who drew this.
|
|
|
|
Post by ZephyrPhantom on Nov 17, 2022 21:50:02 GMT
*Wreck* Penumbral Witness  " style="max-width:100%;"] " style="max-width:100%;"] " style="max-width:100%;"] Creature - Human Shaman When ~ enters the battlefield, return target card in your graveyard to your hand. When ~ dies, create a token that's a copy of ~ except is is black and has no mana cost. 2/1 The art is here. I can't find who drew this. Reverse image searching suggests it's an artist named NIZM (which matches the artist signature) that did some art for some games but has pulled it all down since them. I think it's okay to credit NIZM as the artist since the signature suggests that's how they wanted to be credited to begin with. |
|
|
|
Post by ameisenmeister on Nov 17, 2022 23:19:17 GMT
Couldn't find the artist for the image but it was just too fitting to ignore. |
|
|
|
Post by twintania on Nov 19, 2022 23:54:22 GMT
Reverse image searching suggests it's an artist named NIZM (which matches the artist signature) that did some art for some games but has pulled it all down since them. I think it's okay to credit NIZM as the artist since the signature suggests that's how they wanted to be credited to begin with. Thank you, I had given up to find the author for all the results were pinterest. But I could find it for your advice. |
|
|
|
Post by melono on Dec 2, 2022 14:38:19 GMT
I'll do a complete judging later, next week or something, but I'll say the winner for now so a new challenge can come: The winner is twintania with a really nice wreck of Eternal Witness + Penumbra. The gift that keeps on giving. |
|
|
|
Post by twintania on Dec 12, 2022 16:02:23 GMT
I had planned to start new challenge after the complete judge but more than a week has past so now I start new one. The next challenge is to push Razor Pendulum. |
|
|
|
Post by vizionarius on Dec 12, 2022 16:45:32 GMT
Razor Pendulum Artifact At the beginning of each player’s upkeep and end step, ~ deals 1 damage to that player. If that player has 5 of less life, ~ deals 2 damage instead.
|
|
|
|
Post by twintania on Jan 3, 2023 21:47:17 GMT
Bump.
If no other post is done in two days, vizionarius wins this game.
|
|
|
|
Post by ZephyrPhantom on Jan 4, 2023 1:18:38 GMT
Telim'Tor's Pendulum  Artifact At the beginning of each player’s end step, if that player has 5 or less life, Razor Pendulum deals 5 damage to that player. "Tell him that sir Taur has been executed, sir." - Messenger to Telim'TorSee Hidetsugu's Second Rite's
|
|
|
|
Post by twintania on Jan 6, 2023 21:27:15 GMT
vizionarius wins. ZephyrPhantom 's Telim'Tor's Pendulum is almost Lava Axe for 4 mana with some hardness to use. For example, you can win with your four Lava Axes but four copies of the Pendulum do nothing. Probably, it is not be used even in the days of Mirage. vizionarius's one is not very attractive, but it would be able to find its role in some decks.
|
|
|
|
Post by vizionarius on Jan 12, 2023 21:04:46 GMT
(Whoops, forgot to reply for this!) Thanks for the win! Next: Now that it was mentioned, let's catch wreck Lava Axe! |
|
|
|
Post by hydraheadhunter on Jan 13, 2023 8:28:11 GMT
Lava Scythe
Two generic and three red
Sorcery
Lava Flair deals 5 damage to target player and 5 damage to each of up to two target permanents they control.
|
The going rate for damage tends towards a 2:1 damage to mana ratio with 3:1 being the point where things start being 'must includes.' So, here we have a 3:1 ratio with face damage and two spot removals. |
|
|
|
Post by vizionarius on Jan 26, 2023 18:53:24 GMT
Bump for more entries. Judging tomorrow.
|
|
|
|
Post by ZephyrPhantom on Jan 26, 2023 19:38:23 GMT
Lava Solarang Sorcery ~ deals 5 damage to target player or planeswalker. If a player's life total falls below 0 this way, you may create a copy of ~ and cast it without paying its mana cost. "Let's go for a triple wrangle." - Kayok, solarang-smithTrample for players taken to the next level in that it can instantly end a multiplayer game. There's several ways to limit it to make it a non-wreck like removing "without paying its mana cost" or only having the Solarang's excess damage be dealt to another player.
|
|
|
|
Post by ameisenmeister on Jan 26, 2023 22:25:17 GMT
Reference to Demanding Dragon and, of course, Lava Axe. For a non-broken but merely pushed version I'd go with repeat this process once, if you control a Dragon instead. |
|
|
|
Post by vizionarius on Jan 30, 2023 20:42:50 GMT
Feedbackhydraheadhunter: I really like this. I like that you give explanation for your power level. Also, seeing that Delayed Blast Fireball (which does require some setup and costs more, but I'd consider much more powerful), Shower of Coals, and Meteor Blast (1 less damage, but similar cost to deal the damage; however, those also give more flexibility to what's being dealt damage) exist, I think your design is very strong, but not outlandish. Feel of the card remains true to the original. Nice name too! ZephyrPhantom: At first, I thought this was too strong, but then I spent some more time on it and realized that it might actually be the same as Lava Axe in 90% (made-up statistic) of cases. For it to be awesome requires a lot of set-up, and even if it's used to kill off someone (which is what I would expect Lava Axe to do in 90% [also made-up] of cases to do), it will just deal another 5 damage to someone. In commander (the most common multiplayer format), that doesn't feel like much. I think it's on par in power with Lava Axe, so not pushed enough. ameisenmeister: This feels like a very different card than Lava Axe. I would likely go with your non-broken version. With a few cheap early dragons and changelings, this can be a very fast lethal. If players could sacrifice any permanent, it might be a little better. If it cost more than 2, it might feel more balanced too.
ResultWinner is hydraheadhunter with a submission that feels a lot like original, but takes it to the next level without making it totally busted.
|
|
|
|
Post by hydraheadhunter on Jan 31, 2023 7:06:15 GMT
Thanks for the win. So I put some basic restrictions in scryfall (no stickers, attractions, kamigawa flips, basics, double-sided cards, cards on the reserved list, or draft-matters cards) and put them low-high by EDHrec to see what utter dregs I could find. Turns out there's some real utter dregs. Picking one of those dregs, break or wreck Mtenda Lion, the 57th lowest EDHrec'd card by the stated criteria:  |
|
|
|
Post by ZephyrPhantom on Jan 31, 2023 10:13:56 GMT
Mtenda Pride Creature - Cat Storm (When you cast this spell, copy it for each spell cast before it this turn. Copies become tokens.)Whenever Mtenda Pride attacks, defending player may pay  or . If that player does, prevent all combat damage that would be dealt by Mtenda Lion this turn. 2/1 Many suns ago, the lions thundered across the land, terrorizing man and goat alike.Wanted to keep the drawback relevant in an interesting way and I realized scaling it up to make it soft mana taxing/LD might be the way to go. Since the challenge is "wreck" this time I've deliberately kept its original cost so that it likely becomes a new modern/legacy bane that terrorizes the format for a few months and then gets unceremoniously banned somehow. Realistically if I was just pushing it I would likely give it a cost of so that it's cheaper than Empty the Warrens but not as easily splashable (and the creature still has the drawback of being able to be stopped).
|
|
