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Post by vizionarius on Sept 21, 2023 20:35:12 GMT
Liked: I'm of the opinion that Hesiod's Cyclopes are greatly underused in fantasy works. I can't remember the last time I saw a fantasy cyclops that wasn't effectively a generic ogre with less depth perception. Disliked: The abilities don't have much mechanical or flavorful cohesion. I'm not sure what exactly they're supposed to represent. In addition, split second on something that isn't instant-speed or an Aura seems random, and I don't think it's possible to grant abilities to "sources." 2.75/5 Thanks for the feedback! Yeah, I wanted to do more than a one-eyed Ogre. Fair critique on the mechanics, but I wanted to give a bit of insight on my thinking: Split second references lightning, it's the red part of the card. It's a non-green way to say "can't be countered" in my mind, but a bit more than that. Lifelink on noncreatures is the white part. It plays with the concept of them making Zeus' (Heliod's) lightning, making burn spells and other non-creature damage sources gain you life. The blue part is the extra draw. It plays with the concept of knowledge through the word "brightness." It's a bit of a stretch, but I wanted to have some blue in there since they are the sons of the Sky as well. Three abilities for the three cyclopses, for their three colors. It's a bit of a loose connection, but made sense in my mind. Also, I didn't find references to sources being granted abilities, but it's become how WotC groups cards and permanents into a single category. The best example is probably Voidstone Gargoyle, where you can see the difference between the original card and the errata (it went from having 5 to having 4 abilities). As per this phrasing, sources can have abilities, so I think it's OK for them to also be granted abilities. |
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Post by Idea on Sept 21, 2023 20:47:59 GMT
Liked: The flavor comes through clearly and it's an interesting twist on typical Cyclops cards.
Disliked: I feel the abilities all clash in what they want to be doing. Increasing noncombat damage dealt by a creature is extremely narrow, especially outside of green, the color with the most fighting and biting.
[/div][/quote] I'm not sure I see your point on those dislikes... I mean red's both a color of damage increase and I believe almost all the time the color of creatures dealing noncombat damage (outside of the specific case of fighting. Even then I'm fairly certain certain fighting is also in-color for red). It might be narrow, but it's also specifically giving that bonus to a creature which does have an ability to deal noncombat damage. White gives vigilance and and white/red are colors that often care about equipment, especially when together. Outside of the color matter, I also think the abilities go together. The second and third ability do without question since one increases noncombat damage and the other allows noncombat damage to be dealt... but vigilance also improves both of those by letting the creature attack AND use the tap ability to deal noncombat damage. The equipment restriction is mostly there for balance and flavor not synergy, but equipment that could give better noncombat damage dealing abilities also exist like Thornbite Staff or Heavy Arbalest. So unless I'm missing something I don't see how the abilities "clash in what they want to be doing". As far as I can tell, I built them to be fairly synergistic with one another. |
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Post by vizionarius on Sept 21, 2023 21:10:16 GMT
melono , looking out for pauper commanders! 
 Skyshock Drake   Creature - Drake  Flying Whenever a Drake you control deals combat damage to a player, you may pay  . When you do, it deals 1 damage to any target. 2/2 Note: This is my take on the only once "firebreathing" some Drakes have.
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Post by Idea on Sept 21, 2023 21:45:52 GMT
So after looking into it, I found drakes have a few common themes. First, they all seem to have flying (unless I missed any), which isn't exactly surprising. There's a fair amount of protection effects. Lots of stuff that add cards to your hand, usually draw but there's also several bouncing cases. There's lots of raw ETB effects (as in, aside from keywords no other effect aside from ETB), which further adds to the hand theme. Also several cards that give other creatures you control flying, and a few cards that care about instants and sorceries in your graveyard or manipulating the top of the deck.  |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Sept 21, 2023 22:26:23 GMT
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Post by Flo00 on Sept 28, 2023 13:29:58 GMT
You didn't say that the tribal has to concern drakes... Aethermage Familiar  Creature - Drake Flying When Aethermage Familiar enters the battlefield, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a Wizard card. Put that card into your hand, then shuffle. 2/2 |
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Post by melono on Oct 9, 2023 5:54:28 GMT
I'll be ending this now. Full judging will have to wait till I am back from vacation, but the winner is: vizionarius |
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Post by vizionarius on Oct 10, 2023 6:58:28 GMT
Thanks for the win!
Next: Let's see some non-green snakes!
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Post by Idea on Oct 10, 2023 9:00:50 GMT
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Post by Daij_Djan on Oct 10, 2023 18:32:51 GMT
Seems like Snakes exist in every color in Magic except white - time to change that!
Since the original artist was inspired by the Rainbow Serpent myth, I decided to keep the theme (except on a much smaller scale). The original deity is said to move between water holes, either blessing people or causing destruction depending on peoples' actions and her mood. Mechanically speaking, the first mode was supposed to be the typical deathtouch many snakes feature blended into white.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Oct 10, 2023 20:55:42 GMT
My notes say this was inspired by the Nat Geo Wild episode Beauty of Snakes:  Night Cobra   Creature--Vampire Snake Deathtouch As long as Night Cobra is blocking, it has first strike. Vampirism 1 (Whenever a creature dealt damage by this creature this turn dies, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.)1/3 |
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Post by melono on Oct 11, 2023 8:41:31 GMT
Constrictor of Prey Enchantment Creature - Snake  When ~ enters the battlefield, tap target creature an opponent controls. That creature doesn't untap during its controller's untap step for as long as you control ~. Once coiled, it can't let go until either prey or predator is dead.2/2 I actually would say that non-venomous snakes, thus the constrictor/python type, would be an excellent fit for white and blue. Also, this ability should exist more on creatures. Though it might be too aggressively costed like this? Would depend on the set I suppose.
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Post by melono on Oct 13, 2023 12:21:10 GMT
Here’s the judging for the drakes: vizionarius - Skyshock Drake: A good “firebreathing” option, that has a good trigger in the combat damage as drakes have flying and are supposed to be able to deal combat damage. The damage is also quite appropriate to be in blue yet cost a , as it is quite a control tool if you have enough drakes. It’s also a reasonably unique ability. Idea - Highwind Majesty: Standard +1/+1 boost for a tribal/typal lord. The main meat is in the second ability. About that one: first, I dislike some of the wording. Easier would’ve been: “Attacking drakes you control have protection from creatures without flying or reach.” Also, this feels like an extremely unneeded ability, as the creatures without flying or reach aren’t blocking your drakes anyways: they have flying. Like, abilities, sure. But then they would need to be abilities that only trigger and target during combat, which is rare. You could’ve made drakes just have protection from creatures your opponents control during your turn if you have 5+ cards in hand. Way less text for often the same effect. sdfkjgh - Mother Drake: Lowering the cost of drakes, but (against your example) upping your counter-ability cost, solid design choice taking the example into account. I don’t think it would be overly powerful even if it stayed a 2 mana ability though. Playtesting would have to show that one though. Besides that, proper stats. Flo00 - Aethermage Familiar: I didn’t specify that indeed. Perhaps I did that on purpose so people could design something different? Who knows. Anywho, a simple to understand ability, which does a one-for-one on cast. Great card if you have only one or two different wizards in deck as you know what you'd get, so perhaps not THAT tribal/typal as you'd want very few wizards. A plus; Allows for more thought in deck-building as an alternative to current Wizard-searchers (aka, the Wizard-cycling cards). |
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Post by Idea on Oct 13, 2023 13:04:50 GMT
Idea - Highwind Majesty: Standard +1/+1 boost for a tribal/typal lord. The main meat is in the second ability. About that one: first, I dislike some of the wording. Easier would’ve been: “Attacking drakes you control have protection from creatures without flying or reach.” Also, this feels like an extremely unneeded ability, as the creatures without flying or reach aren’t blocking your drakes anyways: they have flying. Like, abilities, sure. But then they would need to be abilities that only trigger and target during combat, which is rare. You could’ve made drakes just have protection from creatures your opponents control during your turn if you have 5+ cards in hand. Way less text for often the same effect. I want to point out that the protection doesn't just block abilities which only trigger or target in combat. It prevents any targeting by those creatures during combat period, regardless of them being possible to activate outside of combat. You might argue they could use them outside of combat, but strategically it can make a difference knowing ahead of time which of your creatures your opponent uses abilities on (AKA maybe you don't attack with one that would be exposed that way, whereas before they could choose after you were already committed to the attack). It also lasts until end of turn and not end of combat, so anything triggered or benefiting from the fact that they attacked or dealt damage is also prevented at least for that turn. |
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Post by vizionarius on Oct 13, 2023 15:07:59 GMT
Idea - Highwind Majesty: Standard +1/+1 boost for a tribal/typal lord. The main meat is in the second ability. About that one: first, I dislike some of the wording. Easier would’ve been: “Attacking drakes you control have protection from creatures without flying or reach.” Also, this feels like an extremely unneeded ability, as the creatures without flying or reach aren’t blocking your drakes anyways: they have flying. Like, abilities, sure. But then they would need to be abilities that only trigger and target during combat, which is rare. You could’ve made drakes just have protection from creatures your opponents control during your turn if you have 5+ cards in hand. Way less text for often the same effect. I want to point out that the protection doesn't just block abilities which only trigger or target in combat. It prevents any targeting by those creatures during combat period, regardless of them being possible to activate outside of combat. You might argue they could use them outside of combat, but strategically it can make a difference knowing ahead of time which of your creatures your opponent uses abilities on (AKA maybe you don't attack with one that would be exposed that way, whereas before they could choose after you were already committed to the attack). It also lasts until end of turn and not end of combat, so anything triggered or benefiting from the fact that they attacked or dealt damage is also prevented at least for that turn. Do you have a specific example in mind? It still feels pretty narrow in scope. |
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Post by Idea on Oct 13, 2023 15:13:56 GMT
I want to point out that the protection doesn't just block abilities which only trigger or target in combat. It prevents any targeting by those creatures during combat period, regardless of them being possible to activate outside of combat. You might argue they could use them outside of combat, but strategically it can make a difference knowing ahead of time which of your creatures your opponent uses abilities on (AKA maybe you don't attack with one that would be exposed that way, whereas before they could choose after you were already committed to the attack). It also lasts until end of turn and not end of combat, so anything triggered or benefiting from the fact that they attacked or dealt damage is also prevented at least for that turn. Do you have a specific example in mind? It still feels pretty narrow in scope. I didn’t have a specific example in mind, but literally any ability that can be used as a targeting combat trick (damage dealing, -n/-n giving, maybe something that makes a creature lose flying…) and not be restricted to only be usable on combat this would apply to. |
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Post by vizionarius on Oct 13, 2023 18:03:15 GMT
Do you have a specific example in mind? It still feels pretty narrow in scope. I didn’t have a specific example in mind, but literally any ability that can be used as a targeting combat trick (damage dealing, -n/-n giving, maybe something that makes a creature lose flying…) and not be restricted to only be usable on combat this would apply to. The reason why I ask for an example is because I find that in a vacuum, it can feel impactful, but the situation where it would be impactful would rarely actually happen, so the effect ends up not making much difference. The abilities it shuts off can likely just be done in response to the trigger, and it does nothing against spells, which is what would be used more often to deal with them. I just think there are actually very few instances of effects where this would be impactful. |
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Post by Idea on Oct 13, 2023 18:55:30 GMT
I didn’t have a specific example in mind, but literally any ability that can be used as a targeting combat trick (damage dealing, -n/-n giving, maybe something that makes a creature lose flying…) and not be restricted to only be usable on combat this would apply to. The reason why I ask for an example is because I find that in a vacuum, it can feel impactful, but the situation where it would be impactful would rarely actually happen, so the effect ends up not making much difference. The abilities it shuts off can likely just be done in response to the trigger, and it does nothing against spells, which is what would be used more often to deal with them. I just think there are actually very few instances of effects where this would be impactful. Maybe so. I'm not denying that there might be a narrow application - just that it's not quite as narrow as the feedback suggested. |
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Post by vizionarius on Oct 25, 2023 0:25:08 GMT
FeedbackIdea: I like this! Clean design, 3-mana shade at 1/1 with menace is pretty decent already, so this might be better at uncommon, also due to the number of effects. I like the "reach a threshold and get some bonus." It feels a lot more like a Shade than a Snake, though the bonus of deathtouch does point to the Snake part. Daij_Djan: I really like this! Awesome art, too! Definitely plays with the "surprise, your attacker is now dead" that many Snakes have via deathtouch. Indeed a nice port to white. I also like that you chose white! The 2nd mode is great too. Essentially one of those modal spells in white that usually cost 2 mana where you can kill something or defend something, but now with a body, so it might actually end up being a 2-for-1 as a surprise blocker that also kills another attacker. So maybe a little strong? sdfkjgh: Interesting take on the first strike + deathtouch mattering as a blocker as opposed to an attacker, for black. I think it may be a bit too good as a blocker in any color, let alone in mono black. I think it'd have liked to see that first strike when it's attacking. I like vampirism, good name for the mechanic! melono: This is a very nice take on the "enchant creature to keep it tapped" mechanic seen in blue, and it does fit very neatly with snakes. Easier to remove than an enchantment (oh, just notice it itself is also an enchantment), but also can deal damage. I think it might be just a tiny bit strong. A 2/1 body would fix that, I think. Agree that the constrictor types of snakes would make sense in  . Not sure that it needs to be an enchantment; it would make sense without that type.
ResultThis was a really tough call between Daij_Djan and melono because they both brought something quite novel in terms of design. I will give this one to melono.
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Post by melono on Oct 25, 2023 7:35:40 GMT
Thanks for the win! Also, I made it an enchantment for two reasons; even easier to remove (nerfing it a bit), and drawing parallels with the old auras that tap down. It might also find more of a spot in blue enchantment decks.
Anyhoo, creature type. Create me a non-humanoid Elephant. And only uncommons and commons allowed. So no Loxodons or whatev.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Oct 25, 2023 11:37:21 GMT
I was a little worried there for a second that I wouldn't have anything yet for this Challenge. Turns out I had 3 options to choose from. Carnivorous Mastodon  Creature--Elephant Trample Carnage—If a permanent or player was dealt 4 or more damage by a single source this turn, Carnivorous Mastodon enters the battlefield with two additional +1/+1 counters on it. 2/1 |
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Post by Flo00 on Oct 25, 2023 14:06:28 GMT
Raised Armodon Creature - Zombie Elephant , Exile a creature card with toughness 2 or less from your graveyard: Return Raised Armodon form your graveyard to your hand. 3/3 Its last days are gone. Yet it is cursed to walk on.Edit: Thanks sdfkjgh for the correction and the praise. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Oct 25, 2023 15:33:09 GMT
Raised Armodon Creature - Zombie Elephant , Exile a creature card with toughness 2 or less from your graveyard: Return Raised Armodon form your graveyard to your hand. 3/3 It's last days are gone. Yet it is cursed to walk on.Beautiful callback and tribute to a minor theme from Magic's distant past. Although, it should be "Its", not "It's". You wouldn't have "hi's", "her's", or "their's" would you? |
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Post by Idea on Oct 27, 2023 16:06:21 GMT
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Post by vizionarius on Oct 27, 2023 18:05:43 GMT
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Post by emberfire17 on Oct 27, 2023 18:19:21 GMT
 Bonus: {Spoiler} As soon as I read "Elephant" I had the great idea to make the lovely Adventure Time character, but making him anything less than mythic would be doing the character an injustice.  |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Oct 27, 2023 20:08:20 GMT
I think you want "Whenever ~ blocks a creature or becomes blocked by a creature, return that blocked or blocking creature to its owner's hand." |
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Post by viriss on Oct 28, 2023 4:00:05 GMT
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Bouncearama
3/3 Beast
Posts: 174
Formerly Known As: pistonsmcgraw
Favorite Card: Davriel, Soul Broker
Favorite Set: Unstable
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by Bouncearama on Oct 28, 2023 15:07:12 GMT
Thinking about how this interacts with pixie guide breaks my brain lol. |
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Post by Flo00 on Oct 29, 2023 9:29:22 GMT
Thinking about how this interacts with pixie guide breaks my brain lol. I crunched the numbers and here is what I got. First off, numbers for Bamboozling Beeble are much easier to calculate: | Bamboozling Beebles | probability (exact) | probability (numeric value) | | 0 | 1/6 | 0.16666... | | 1 | 16/36 | 0.4444... | | 2 | 156/216 | 0.72222... | | 3 | 1176/1296 | 0.9074... | | 4 | 7656/7776 | 0.9845... | | 5 or more | 1 | 1 |
Yea, with 5 Bamboozling Beebles you roll 7 dice, so 2 of them have to be the same. Now for Pixie Guide: | Pixie Guides | probability (exact) | probability (numeric value) | | 0 | 1/6 | 0.16666... | | 1 | 51/216 | 0.2361111... | | 2 | 396/1296 | 0.305555... | | 3 | 2881/7776 | 0.3704... | | 4 | 52106/46656 | 0.4309... | | 5 | 136331/279936 | 0.4870... | | 6 | 905016/1679616 | 0.5388... | | 7 | 5910885/10077696 | 0.5865... |
More than 2 is the point where my brain breaks trying to make a nice formula so I used python to just brute force count through all possible results. At 7 Pixie Guides this took about a minute. I'm not willing to go further.EDIT: I realized that I was thinking way too complicated. You roll doubles if there is not a single highest number. That means P(doubles with n Pixie Guides) = 1 - (n+2)*(5^(n+1)+4^(n+1)+3^(n+1)+2^(n+1)+1)/6^(n+2) |
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