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Post by vizionarius on Nov 9, 2023 17:29:35 GMT
Judging tomorrow; any last entries?
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Post by vizionarius on Nov 10, 2023 22:54:04 GMT
Idea wins. I like the idea to have the effect be tied to something more interactive than a simple ETB. But it feels a bit strange to tie it to damage (especially even damage to non-players). Adding the already-exiled cards into the grave is an interesting addition that actually makes this better as a 4-mana 6/6 flyer since multiple copies of it won't kill you so badly with a low GY count. However, it comes with it another issue of triggering effects that care about cards entering the grave "from anywhere."
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Post by Idea on Nov 11, 2023 2:32:02 GMT
Unfortunate that there were no other entries, but thank you for the win nonetheless vizionariusFor the next challenge, let's try something a little different. Instead of fixing one card, let's try to lift the ban on the companion keyword. Feel free to use any of the previous companion cards as a basis or make up your own. Do try to explain how you're trying to circumvent the ban on the companion part of the card specifically.
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Nov 11, 2023 3:11:06 GMT
Companion (If this card is your chosen companion, you may put it into your hand from outside the game for as a sorcery.)/j I feel like history has proven that stapling the value of a Commander/extra card in hand on a card at the start of the game can be like walking on eggshells if you're not careful - see Once Upon a Time. Essentially, a Companion does two things for free - guarantees a specific effect in your hand, and gives you an extra card in your hand. Neither of these effects should be free, and yet here they are. Sure, they costed for a bit, but that clearly isn't enough by itself when you look at things like Lurrus of the Dream Den. So we're left with three angles to address this problem: - Hike up the cost. We've already seen this doesn't work by itself and we don't want to create a bunch of 20 cost cards either. - Make cards extremely minor effects, like Sentinel Dispatch. This results in fairly bland designs and and might not solve the problem anyway.- Card disadvantage - Essentially, force the player to start with less options in exchange for having a guaranteed option. I think this is a potentially fair option in the sense that it leaves players much more vulnerable to Turn 1 Thoughtseize and restricts their use of mulliganing for combo hands because it's a lot harder to juggle having a manabase and optimal plays when you have to get rid of more cards. Discard decks are all the rage with Grief right now, so at the very least this nerf would make Servitors unable to get a leg up on them. I pondered between having Servitors come to the top of the library and come directly into the hand, but I decided to keep it as the latter so that discard decks could immediately respond to it on turn 1 to minimize any ambiguity or shenanigans. To keep the effect straightforward, cost increases are directly factored into the actual card's mana cost. This is for two reasons: 1) It's generally assumed you're going to use Servitors for the guaranteed effect (really, who doesn't?). 2) This lets individual cards be tweaked based on the actual power of the effect they provide as a Servitor. I don't showcase that in this cycle, but the potential is there. Painter of Ashes Creature - Human Artist Servitor (At the beginning of your first turn's upkeep, you may reveal ~ from your library and exile two cards from your hand. If you do, add ~ to your hand, then shuffle. You may only reveal one Servitor per game this way.)Whenever a red spell you control deals damage, exile the top card of your library. Until end of turn, you may play cards exiled this way. 3/1 "By this oath, I remember those lost to injust flames."Witch of Din Gremreth Creature - Human Warlock Servitor (At the beginning of your first turn's upkeep, you may reveal ~ from your library and exile two cards from your hand. If you do, add ~ to your hand, then shuffle. You may only reveal one Servitor per game this way.)Whenever a creature dies, you may put a -1/-1 counter on Witch of Din Gremreth. , , remove a ~ counter from ~: Put a -1/-1 counter on target creature. 1/4 "By this oath, I bring you a long-promised death."Seer-Dancer of Irisva Creature - Human Rogue Servitor (At the beginning of your first turn's upkeep, you may reveal ~ from your library and exile two cards from your hand. If you do, add ~ to your hand, then shuffle. You may only reveal one Servitor per game this way.)Whenever you cast your second spell each turn, scry 2. 2/2 "By this oath, I dance the path to your unseen future."
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Post by Idea on Nov 25, 2023 1:22:42 GMT
Only one entry so far, but hoping for more! Either way I'm most likely closing this one either tomorrow afternoon or the day after.
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Post by Idea on Nov 26, 2023 1:41:47 GMT
very well, I am closing this contest! I think your analysis was pretty spot-on ZephyrPhantom. Your solution is overall elegant, though I wonder if a large cost that needs to be paid all at once plus exiling two cards from your hand on your first turn isn't a bit too much. These servitors don't have the deckbuilding restrictions companions had to be able to use them as companions, so it makes sense to make them costly to obtain, but if they are like that they should probably be more effective once you do have them. Painter of Ashes Pretty interestingly balanced, I think it would be difficult to make a good comparison argument for this one's case as it has a pretty commander-like effect. I do think this might be a bit too fragile though. Low stats make sense given what you want to do, but making this have 1 toughness makes it incredibly vulnerable for a card that not only costs 5 mana, but wants you to play other cards alongside it preferably in the same turn. It's a good example of what I was talking about above: Its hard to obtain but the extras also have consequences on other aspects of it's usefulness, making such a card much harder to justify including even in deck that specifically use its gameplan. Witch of Din Gremreth A creature dying will easily make this borderline useless in combat, and it can only put -1/-1 counters on things and that's assuming it's weakened first. I think without ever needing an effect this clunky you could make much better alternatives for her gameplan. Painter was strong but too fragile, but this one is costly, fragile AND weak. Seer-Dancer of Irisva This one I think is pretty good. Her effect isn't crazy or anything, but it has repeated synergy and while 2/2 isn't quite tough, it's a lot better than 1 toughness. The winner naturally is ZephyrPhantom
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Nov 26, 2023 3:36:36 GMT
Thanks for the detailed feedback. Let's go with a simple but iconic one: Make Necropotence fair and playable in...well, any well known constructed format besides Legacy/Vintage/Commander, really.
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Post by melono on Nov 30, 2023 19:52:19 GMT
Plagued Potency Enchantment ~ enters the battlefield with three plague counters on it, then draw three cards. Indestructible, shroud. Whenever you would draw your first card during your draw step, remove a plague counter from ~ instead. Then, if there are no plague counters on ~, sacrifice it and lose 3 life. Limit the amount of cards, and make the drawback an actual drawback.
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Post by Idea on Nov 30, 2023 19:57:56 GMT
Turning Necropotence into something fair without destroying the whole point of the card is a real challenge. For my attempt, I decided to do three things to it that on a competitive level could be quite significant: I've made the card slower, riskier and more of an upfront investment. Doubling the life cost here isn't a huge deal in of itself I think, as while it can really reduce the number of cards you can draw it's still a massive advantage 2 life for a card. What it does do it make getting the cards more risky and a bigger commitment on each card. This I think pairs well with the real meat of the change: I've made it so the cards return on your upkeep and with some wording change they only return if you still have Necropotence. This gives "drawing" via Necropotence a massive weakness that can be exploited if the card ever gets out of control: Some enchantment removal will get rid of any cards exiled before anyone has a chance to use them. Further instant-speed cards will not help you since they only come to your hand during the upkeep, which gives your opponent a chance to untap their lands. In other words, it'll be a lot harder to be really sure your opponent won't have access to enchantment removal, which makes overextending with your pseudo-draws a much greater risk. Edit: Added a timing clause to make it harder to get around the card's restrictions.
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Post by kingofohio on Dec 7, 2023 1:34:11 GMT
First, I increased the mana value by 1 generic to slow the initial play. Second, I increased the draw restriction to any card draw. Third, I removed the "face down" part of the activated ability. And finally, I took away life as a cost. I considered having the activated ability cost 2 black, but I thought that was too expensive. (I also downgraded the rarity to Rare.) To summarize, now this is a turn 4 play that doesn't see a great benefit until turn 5 (when playing honest Magic). Even then, when you can get this to go off, your opponents can see what is coming. I hope you think this is still playable and I didn't butcher it too badly.
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Post by vizionarius on Dec 14, 2023 4:00:52 GMT
Necropotence Enchantment Skip your draw step. Whenever you have six or more cards in your hand, you lose the game. Pay 1 life: Draw a card at the beginning of your next end step.
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Dec 15, 2023 17:22:21 GMT
This was a really good competition because even though I'm sick atm you guys forced me to think a lot about this. I think there were issues with designs but nothing that couldn't be improved for a proper set. melono - A warped Ancestral Recall, neat. Treacherous Blessing suggest this should be 3 mana for Standard, I could see it being 2 mana in Modern - I'm pretty sure some decks, especially the recently banned Up the Beanstalk ones, would be over the moon if they could get instant 3 cards for one mana. Storm is also very concerning here - basically there are enough decks that don't care about having a next turn that they'll gladly cram their deck with 4x of these at 1 mana and proceed to win earlier than they should. Bit pushed for the prompt but it's close enough. One afterthought to this, actually - you could've had this negate all draws and it would be a lot more plausible to print, even at 1 mana. That would at least stop decks from cramming 4x of them. Idea - This was a bit tough to digest but once I understood I agree with your logic. Enchantment removal in SB is extremely common in competitive formats and would act as a buffer against this type of card dominating. I think this should cost BBBB though if only because 4 mana is usually where the big card advantage engines in Modern usually start to appear - The One Ring, Karn, the Great Creator, Jace the Mind Sculptor, to name a few. Even then it's a bit concerning since it doesn't have a built in turn-cap like the others, but I think the big delay would keep it in check. kingofohio - This definitely reads as being a lot safer and fairer - if I only had JTMS to compare this against I might've rated it too powerful, but in a One Ring world I actually think this is roughly comparable to it. vizionarius - In MaRo's words, the words "lose the game" are like dynamite - you must be balancing out something really extreme for it to be used as opposed to any other drawback. Despite the card that this is, I don't think Necro (or more precisely, Yawgmoth's Bargain) is that card and I worry the drawback doesn't necessarily do that much to subvert what it does as you can still set things up to empty your hand somehow (shoals, discard, etc...) and then draw to six again. I would've much rather seen a harsher hand limit and a different kind of drawback - like, if you have 2 or more cards in hand, anything you draw must be exiled, for example - see Null Profusion. I don't think this card is would be safe below Legacy, and at minimum if you were trying to print it to direct to Modern it'd need to cost 4BB like Yawgmoth's Bargain. (It probably doesn't need to be 8 mana because it'd be harder to reanimate than Griselbrand, but cheating it out should still be a challenge.) So this really comes down to two questions: 1) How much is the card still recognizably Necropotence? Some of you opted to rework the card entirely and make it resemble a different card in the process. I was tempted to rate solely on this, and it still plays a big role in judgement - but that's not the question I actually asked. 2) Is your card getting into Modern or below as-is? This is the question I asked and I think it really separates the winner from the runner ups here because everyone made a lot of pushed designs but there was a recurring trend of being 1 mana too cheap or being one nerf away from preventing easy exploits. I ended up comparing to The One Ring a lot more than expected but it asks a lot of similar questions and makes me realize like I mentioned in Idea's review that the most iconic examples of these things are still pretty firmly at 4 mana. kingofohio wins for answering 2) the best, with Idea as runner-up for following 1) the best.
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Jan 3, 2024 21:09:17 GMT
I haven't seen kingofohio recently, so the challenge is free for Idea to take anytime they want to. If neither of them take it in a week, melono feel free to step up (again based on the "how close were you to a modern playable card?" metric.)
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Post by Idea on Jan 4, 2024 12:50:05 GMT
Alright then. For the next card, let's unban Dread Return! bonus points for more creative approaches.
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Post by gluestick248 on Jan 4, 2024 17:26:54 GMT
Dreadful Return Sorcery Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. If this spell was cast from a graveyard, return target creature card with mana value X from your graveyard to the battlefield instead. Flashback — Sacrifice X creatures
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Post by vizionarius on Jan 4, 2024 18:09:19 GMT
Here is the reason for ban. Dread Return Sorcery Sacrifice a creature. When you do, return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Rebound (If you cast this spell from your hand, exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile without paying its mana cost.) Those who forget the horrors of the past are doomed to re-meet them.Note: This allows you to bring back the same creature that you saced.
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Jan 5, 2024 5:54:00 GMT
Dreaded Waltz Sorcery You may sacrifice a creature with mana value 1, then repeat this process for mana value 2 and 3. For each creature sacrificed this way, each opponent loses 2 life. If three creatures are sacrificed this way, return up to three creature cards from your graveyard to the battlefield. Flashback "And on the fourth step, arise, black swan, to the spotlight once more."Significantly more raw power in the reanimation finisher effect, but the three creature sacrifice is now mandatory both times and specifically set up to avoid token cheapness or getting the job done purely off Narcomebas. Because of the difficulty of landing the finisher properly, it can be used as an emergency burn spell as an alternate finisher in decks running it, provided they have the mana and creatures.
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Post by Idea on Jan 18, 2024 1:10:11 GMT
Will be reviewing tomorrow! Any last minute entries are welcome!
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Post by Idea on Jan 18, 2024 23:24:46 GMT
gluestick248{Spoiler}It's an interesting approach, limiting the targets and/or making the cost more expensive creature wise. This solution is quite meta-dependent though, and could easily make the card more of a threat if perchance the keycard to reanimate costs less than 3 mana. Even if it costs more than 3 mana, 4 or 5 creatures would likely make less of an impact that it may seem given a strategy that already accounts for a three creature sacrifice on a relatively casual basis. vizionarius{Spoiler}I like this version of Dread Return, but I think it ruins part of the card's importance, the ability to play it from the graveyard. Granted, this is part of its issue, but I do think a good fix shouldn't break a core part of why the card is played if possible. Still, I guess it might still see some play given it's actually pretty cost efficient for what it does here. ZephyrPhantom{Spoiler}At this point, it seems like an almost entirely different card. The requirements having costs makes sense, but three specific costs seems a bit much to ask, even if they are on the low end like this. Winner {Spoiler}Winner is vizionarius for a card whose solution, while I felt lost a bit too much of the card's edge was still faithful to the card enough and properly addressed it's issues.
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Post by vizionarius on Jan 19, 2024 1:30:57 GMT
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Post by Idea on Jan 19, 2024 1:52:52 GMT
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Post by vizionarius on Feb 14, 2024 23:52:45 GMT
I'll give this a bump and wait around 48 hrs before judging.
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Feb 15, 2024 2:30:36 GMT
Second Sunrise Sorcery Each player returns to the battlefield all non-planeswalker permanent cards in their graveyard that were put there from the battlefield this turn, then you gain 1 life for each non-planeswalker permanent you control. Then, if you have 20 or more life than your starting life total, you win the game. Basically, at some point the card will go "Yeah, we get it, buddy, you won." and stop the game short.
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Post by vizionarius on Feb 17, 2024 2:12:53 GMT
FeedbackIdea: This makes the card even stronger! The deck that got this banned plays Conjurer's Bauble to get it back to the bottom, and Ghost Quartering yourself to shuffle the deck to re-draw it. This takes care of the "shuffle it back in" all on its own! I guess it does save on steps to get the combo off! ZephyrPhantom: Haha, this feels like a buff just to make the point that the deck is annoying. It does make the game end faster, that's for sure. I also like that it has a bit of a reference in theme to Approach of the Second Sun. I just fear that it would also find new uses as a "cast once with 20 permanents out and win," which is not too difficult to get between lands and tokens. ResultI think both submissions actually buff the card in pretty significant ways, which feels like the opposite of the spirit of the challenge. However, the solution that does the most to at least deal with one aspect of the ban (namely that a game becomes a long solitaire game), is ZephyrPhantom, so they get the win. (I think an "exile after resolving" would have been a decent fix.)
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Mar 1, 2024 19:12:47 GMT
melono - Thanks. Let's do another one of the all time greats - unban Black Lotus from a format. Be creative, see how closely you can keep it to being a 0 mana card that adds 3 mana without just showing me existing variations like Lotus Bloom or Lotus Field.
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Post by vizionarius on Mar 1, 2024 19:43:33 GMT
Ancient Lotus Artifact Delve (Each card you exile from your graveyard while casting this spell pays for .), Sacrifice ~: Add three mana of any one color. Note: You can still cast this turn 1 with a Mental Note, Seed of Hope, Stitcher's Supplier, or Otherworldly Gaze. Or other 0-cost cards like the Pacts, the evoke Incarnations, or the Baubles and friends (and I'm sure there are more obscure ways too), but hopefully that forces deck construction enough to where it's less oppressive. It also makes you use multiple cards or a mana to get it going. I'm thinking only about Vintage and Legacy here. {Old entry; just a worse Lotus Bloom} Arcane LotusArtifact - Treasure , Sacrifice ~: Add three mana of any one color. Note: This card has no mana cost. As such, you need to find a way to cheat it into play (cascade, return from grave, put into play from hand).
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Post by Idea on Mar 1, 2024 21:28:26 GMT
While I think this card might still be banned in some formats, I've considerably slowed its mana generation. It's now more akin to a ritual, adding one more mana than a ritual if you wait, though in turn your opponent has the information and might be able to deal with the lotus. I also turned it into an enchantment, as 0 mana spells of any kind are an issue in magic, but artifacts doubly so because of affinity. By turning it into an enchantment you remove a lot of the easier interactions both in affinity and in other shenanigans that bring it back. That being said, enchantments can't tap, which means that the counter solution also has the benefit of acting as an extra limiter for multiple triggers.
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Post by melono on Mar 2, 2024 14:13:54 GMT
Crystal Lotus Artifact , Sacrifice ~: Add . You can't cast any spells until end of turn. You can of course pay abilities with it. But is it worth it to have a boost of 3 colourless mana later in the game when your ability needs activating? Probably. But a probably makes it way more balanced.
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Jul 7, 2024 15:47:40 GMT
Sorry folks, this one fell behind for me. Judging: vizionarius - I really like this design but I think the Delve cost is too easy to enable, even for older formats, due to the large amount of rituals, Dredge cards, and goodness know what else flying around. I was specifically trying to see with this card if it could easily re-enable Gyruda, Doom of Depths similar to the post-errata nerf Gyruda deck I made for Deckbuilder's Challenge a few years ago and while I think that is a bit a tall order for the deck I can see it being a considerably less tough ordeal for Storm decks or Dredge decks that would gladly take the free mana. I think I'd rather cost this at to be safe instead of risking a Legacy/Vintage ban, because people will try very hard to break free spells as long as it's possible. Idea - Was this supposed to add a petal counter every upkeep? What's written on the card and how you describe its effects seem to be a bit mismatched. Assuming I understood that correctly, I think the fixes you have applied are interesting - even if it's very close to being Lotus Bloom by another name, being on field is actually a significant change because it will be incidentally destroyed by Engineered Explosives on 0. Changing type to enchantment, while not a significant change on its own, does at least further lower the number of decks that can use it. melono - This is what Jeweled Lotus should've been, period. A very situational callback that still copies the excitement of cracking a lotus without being near-mandatory for decks. Winner: melono
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Post by melono on Jul 7, 2024 20:17:27 GMT
Thank you for the win! Now, let's go for something that is banned in my format of choice for being simply too powerful for the format: Pauper Commander. Unban me the once common card Rhystic Study. Remember to keep it a common!
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