Marvel: The Gathering

tywinlannister Indeed I have, and it's fantastic! Jverse linked it way back when I started and I took a look over it. I'll admit that I borrowed more than I should have (read:stole) from your cube, but as I've become more familiar with MTG (and now with my full reboot of Marvel the Gathering) I've been trying to differentiate between mine and yours. I do want to apologize for stealing some of your ideas, and hope you aren't offended by it.

As I've started to work on my set's rework, it's been really fun to see how different people have approached Marvel the Gathering differently. I'd recommend you take a look at jverse version as well since I'm sure you'll find it interesting. Also, is the "5-set marvel take on magic" everything on your website or are you expanding upon it?

tywinlannister Good luck to you as well! I'm certainly excited to what you're working on, and I'm always happy to lend a hand if you need one.

jverse Seeing as you requested people to check over the set for problems (and I had literally nothing to do,) I decided to do a full proof-read over your set. For this proof-read, I decided to only cover creatures, since most of the other spells are reprints. Most of the things I found are really minor changes. I'm going to ignore the things we already discussed (i.e. crowded typelines). Note that this isn't meant to be a gameplay/abilities review, just an accuracy/flavor one. Also, this is as-of the latest Planesculptors update, so I assume there have been some changes from then to now. Hope you find this helpful!

• Blink/Nightcrawler: Seeing as Elves already exist in the Marvel-verse, it's a little weird to have them with an Elf type, though I understand where you're coming from with that. Nightcrawler would make sense as a demon, though.
• Mary Jane Watson: Not having a creature class seems off here, since as far as I can tell she's the only one without a class. Maybe Citizen would work best? It's only been used on tokens but is probably the most flavorful.
• Warlock: Is there any reason he isn't an artifact creature besides typeline space? While the Technarch are an alien species, they still started off being manufactured which makes them pretty solidly artifact creatures.
• Mandarin: Probably needs either Wizard or Warlock since most of his powers revolve around magic.
• Vulture: "Vulture" itself isn't a type, and all MTG vultures are birds.
• Wilson Fisk, the Kingpin: Might be deserving of the Merchant type, seeing as both Sunspot and Norman Osborn have it.
• Electro: Why the Artificer type? As far as I know, Electro isn't notable for his use of machinery.
• Rahne Sinclair/Wolfsbane: Maybe needs the Werewolf type, since "human turns into wolf" has historically been Werewolves.
• Ghost Rider: Skeleton over Demon seems a little strange but I'm fine with it.
• Dazzler, Havok, Magneto, Jubilee, and Polaris: The Wizard type seems off here. These characters don't use magic unlike the set's other Wizards which makes it a little strange. Given the other class options it might be the best choice, but it seems off flavor-wise.
• Hercules: Demigod Warrior seems a little smoother than Warrior Demigod, but that's just personal preference.
• Man-Thing: Probably needs either Plant or Treefolk type added.
• Green Goblin: Assassin feels off. A planned murder doesn't really match Goblin's chaos.
• Professor X: Advisor would be a good addition seeing as how all the other "teacher" characters are Advisors.
• Tony Stark: Toss up between Scientist and Artificer here. Either one works well, just a matter of personal preference.
• Hulk (and associates): I know we had a discussion on how Human doesn't really work and you're currently with Gamma. However, since it seems like you're trying to stick to pre-existing types as much as possible, thoughts on using Giant for Hulk characters?

tywinlannister Honestly, don't bother looking over what I have. It's in the middle of a huge reboot so most of it is getting reworked.

In other news, Mutant Mayhem looks awesome! I love the idea of splitting Marvel MTG across sets to go more in-depth with everything, and yours is a promising start. I sadly don't have time to look over it in detail right now, but the brief part I saw is really cool. Reworking Coordinate with the new keyword counters is easily my favorite part. Any hints at what the other 4 blocks might be?

The newest version of my set can be found on Planesculptors here. I'm looking for very specific feedback now on certain cards that are not playing well, either with themselves or with others. Please help me fix these so I can get on with my life and be done with this project for now.

• Civil War - This card is supposed to be a slow-burn type of board wipe against creatures. It is unique in that it gives players a choice about whether they want to keep their creatures to be cast again for later (register) or get them back later for free at a cost (resist). The mechanics of the card work, but it's complicated, wordy, and not particularly helpful to the player casting it. In particular, the 3rd chapter isn't the best. I'm looking for a way to punish players who choose resist by taking direct player damage. 
• High Evolutionary - Evolve makes so much sense here that I want to keep it on the card, but I'm not sure if he should have the effect himself or only grant it to other creatures. Either way it's a very complicated card during play, and the evolve reminder text is confusing when it's on all your creatures. For those more familiar with the source material, does he genetically alter himself, or mostly other beings? An earlier version of the card just made your other creatures enter the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on them, but I thought it was kind of boring, despite being much simpler. 
• Deathlok - I know next to nothing about this character, so it was hard to design this card. If you have any input that would help me make him more interesting or more faithful to the source material, I would appreciate it. 
• Spontaneous Mutation - I like the art, but it doesn't match the card's effect (debuff). I can't find any other art that would represent a negative mutation, so if you have some ideas, let me know!
• Menace - not a specific card, but a lot of the big bad guys I feel ended up with Menace, and I think it's overkill. If you have a look through the creatures and notice any that you think aren't that much of a menace on society, heroes, the universe, etc., please let me know and I'll take them down a notch or two. 
• Electro - A potentially powerful card and the only one in the set that allows you to turn mana into energy. I wanted a way for the opponent to shut him down if they are playing blue because of the way water interacts with electricity. I originally had the last effect trigger whenever Electro took damage from a blue source, but blue doesn't do direct damage, and he can simply choose not to block blue creatures. Still, I don't like the wording and want to clean up his punish effect if possible.
• Taskmaster - Is his copy ability too strong? He's a weird card that people don't take that seriously until he starts doing crazy and impossible things on the battlefield. Players are not always sure how to use him properly, but I wonder if I should just downgrade his ability to be the same as Strionic Resonator, or keep it as is for some chaotic fun.
• Doctor Curt Connors - I want him to grant regenerate to any creature you control. I also want him to have some sort of +1/+1 counter mechanic. He then needs something related to those two that helps him transform into the lizard. I've tried many versions of this card but they all feel strange or unbalanced. Any thoughts or improvements would be helpful. 
• Reed Richards - I want him to have a unique invent trigger, but I'm not entirely satisfied with the current version. Thoughts?
• Eddie Brock - He's a former reporter, so I like that he investigates when he enters play. I also like that he loses everything in order to transform. What I don't like is that if you play Brock with no other nonland permanents, the clue token gets immediately sacrificed on your next turn, making it useless. I was initially ok with this because it kind of fits what happens to his character, but in a game of Magic, it feels pointless.
• Apocalypse - Not a bad card, but not quite impressive enough for one of the most iconic villains in the Marvel universe. Any way to spice up this card and still keep him in character?
• Magneto - I like his metalcraft ability, but it means he needs a way to generate or take control of artifacts. The problem lies with his repeatable artifact stealing. If I make it a tap ability, it's too weak. Same problem with an ETB trigger. Should I increase the cost, make it a different trigger, or leave it as is?
• Cloak - I like this card, but it's counter intuitive when playing with him. Should you attack with him since he can't be blocked, or leave him available to shut down an attacker? I guess that's a good decision to have to make, and maybe I'll just leave him the way he is, but it is surprisingly difficult to play him well.

Thanks for this Schwa. I'll make another pass and post the updates tomorrow. Sharp eye on the Lizard frame! I wonder how many other creatures have the same issue? You're right about the misc mutants. I made them warriors for now, which falls in line with the other types I'm currently using, and I changed many of the Rogues to Villains, but now it feels weird to have Villains and not Heroes. Guess I'll have to update that as well. 

OK, so... Coordinate is a fantastic mechanic. Bravo there.

The one (kinda massive) issue I'm having is that the design is still very cube-y. Normal sets can't really support such a large number of legendary creatures. Also, I'm looking at cards like Rockslide and, um... yeah. Vanilla legendary creatures haven't been anything other than meme cards since Legends for a reason.

It'd be fun in a cube, where you don't have to worry about multiples (because the whole thing is singleton). It looks like it'd be really frustrating to play in any other way.

EDIT: OK, so I looked through all of your cards, and you have six non-legendary creatures. That's... problematic.

More specifically, two of those creatures require you to be running Black, two of them require you to be running Green, and one of the others requires you to run both. For everyone else, they have to run Destroyer Sentinel or Stepford Cuckoos if they need to fill out their curve.

Seriously, though, you really have to revise your set design if it's supposed to be a normal set.

I wish all of MtG had that cycling legendary rule. I'll check your cards this evening and get back to you with some rules text suggestions. 

Coordinate - I have added target, I agree with you there!

banish to limbo - I've changed the wording to exactly what is on Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. As for where this fits in the color pie, its shared by white and blue (blue tends to do it to items on the stack, white to permanents.) - Good catch on the wording. This is secondary in white, Colour pie
decimation - This is a homage to Humility. And while I agree blue does this mainly on a one for one basis, affecting the entire board (including your own creatures) is in white's wheelhouse. Wording is correct as far as I can tell as per the oraclewording on Humilty.
displaced angel - Good catch
end threat - Good catch
fantomex - The first line ability actually reads correct for creating legendary tokens, they updated this a few sets back, see the oracle text on Tolsmir. ¶ While you are correct on the second line, I'm going to leave out "named Eva" simply because I could definalty see the magic language evolving that way in the future, so I'm going to embrace it for marvel reboot.
join the mob - Yeah its already quite a weak card so I allowed it to count itself.
jubilee - Good catch
ozymandias - Scry is secondary in white, Colour pie
pixie - It is not, this is creating a counter rather than copying one.
portal hopper - Good catch
purifier army - I want all Cultists to gain lifelink, not just the five you attack with.
sapien league attack - Updated to "Create two 1/1 white and black Human Cultist creature tokens. Then put a +1/+1 on each of those creatures."

savage infiltration - Good catch
will made manifest - Good catch
wrap in metal - Good catch

jverse Thanks for this, I tend to miss some stuff working mainly on my own, it is much appreciated!

I have them all stored locally, so I could get them uploaded somewhere, its something I've never looked into if you have any (non-cost) suggestions?

I have a folder ready to share, DM me an email address

I just had a quick look today during work, but it's looking better. I really like the Justice mechanic. Nice and simple, flavourful, and effective. Will provide more feedback later (busy weekend!).

tywinlannister Over on Cajun's Template's thread. Can be found here.

Hey, I had a look through your current set. It's looking good, but I did find a few things to point out.

• symbiosis - feels incredibly strong, like an OP mutate. Anti-venom, for example, would become at least a 4/4 creature with vigilance and lifelink for just 2 colourless. The way that costing seems to work for mutate (which I'll compare as a model for your mechanic) is that you take what a normal creature of that size and power would cost, and give it a bit of a discount since you already need another creature on the board. The only exception to this is for mutate creatures who have very powerful mutate or enter-the-battlefield triggers. Currently, I feel that symbiosis is both too inexpensive, and shouldn't be colourless. 
• resistance - Obviously I haven't had the chance to play with this, but it seems kind of like a do-nothing mechanic. Let's say you have a 3/3 with resistance and you block a 2/2. You don't take 2 damage, but otherwise, nothing else is different from not having the resistance ability. The only situations where I could see this being important is with non-combat damage, but then, why would your opponent target your creatures that they can't kill anyway? What am I not seeing?
• counter tactics - should be "At the beginning of your upkeep..."
• your token creating spells/effects should read "create a 1/1 white Agent creature token". The P/T comes first, then colour, then type, and don't forget to make sure you specify what type of permanent (creature)
• partner - can't believe I didn't think to use this!
• dagger - evergreen keywords come first in the text box, after partner, but before triggered or activated abilities.
• hero's training - should say "At the beginning of your end step..."
• miraculous recovery - "put a +1/+1 counter..."
• mockingbird - "equip abilities you activate that target Mockingbird cost 1 less to activate". Your other creatures with this ability would have the same issue.
• moon knight - "he gains first strike..."
• peggy carter - missing a period at the end of the first ability. Also, you can just say "untap all Agents you control". You don't need to specify that they're creatures.
• SHIELD helicarrier - you could change it to "whenever SHIELD Helicarrier becomes a creature..."
• shield of the seraphim - "creatures can't attack you or a planeswalker you control unless their controller pays 2 for each creature attacking you"
• change the future - strange wording here. It could be "put up to one of those cards on the bottom of your library, then put the rest on top of your library in any order."
• frogify - nice find on the art!
• images of ikonn - should be reworded and in quotes. Maybe take a look at Something Tithe or something like that for reference.
• professor x - wildly overcosted for his power level and rarity. A 0/3 hexproof might cost U or 1U, maybe UU if he has a strong effect (which he does). You can still limit the power of the card by adjusting the ability cost, but I think it's reasonable as it is.
• assemble - I really like this mechanic (I know you borrowed it, but still)
• wasp - probably undercosted. With the counter ability, I'd say she needs to be at least 3 CMC.
• deal with the devil - missing a period
• death's dominion - missing a period
• he's a menace! - interesting card. Needs some rewording. "When He's a Menace enters the battlefield, target player reveals their hand. Name a creature card from that player's hand. Whenever that player casts a spell with the chosen name..."
• hellstorm - last line is a bit confusing, might want to change it to "you lose life equal to that spell's converted mana cost"
• symbiotic takeover - seems expensive for an effect that really benefits your opponents. The only way way to exploit this ability is to put it on a creature that can spam damage at your own team somehow, which is probably pretty janky to set up.
• ultron - also too expensive. maybe 2BB for a mythic of that power level.
• venom - again, way too strong in my opinion for the symbiosis effect. Imagine it's turn two, you have two 1/1s on the field. Turn 3 you play venom for his symbiosis cost, sac the other 1/1 and now you have an 8/8 beater with menace, deathtouch and lifelink. You've pretty much just won the game. 
• berserker rage - why limit this just to your own combat phase?
• gambit - I like your design here. I might adjust my own to make use of this counter design.
• kraven - in terms of flavour, I feel Kraven belongs in green as a hunter, but it's your call.
• power gem - seems underpowered compared the other gems. I'd make it 5 or 6 damage instead.
• you have a lot of red creatures that deal 2 damage to any target. Maybe adjust some to deal damage to just creatures, some to just players, and change the damage amounts to make them more unique.
• trickshot - what's your design goal here?
• fastball special - love it.
• great power/responsibility - just in terms of flavour, I would make the first effect +3/+0 and keep the second +0/+3. I think it makes more sense that way.
• sandman - he's made of sand. That kind of has to be red in my opinion. That said, his ability is a historically green one.
• space gem - hard to think of a situation where this wouldn't be awesome. Maybe limit it by making the creature CMC 6 or less. Still quite strong to tutor up whatever you need

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