oddnanref
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Post by oddnanref on May 10, 2018 14:56:59 GMT
kinotherapy Thanks for the thread. It will help as reference. Tried tiding the mechanic a little. It would look something like this as opposed to the text clutter you get from similar cards in the Lorwyn-Shadowmoor set. Attachment DeletedAs opposed to: Attachment DeletedAs you can see you can now have three effects with less clutter. I am interested to know if this will work in terms of clarity. If you have any comment on the balance of my card, feel free.
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Post by Daij_Djan on May 10, 2018 15:45:51 GMT
@kinotherapy : Investigate looks cool, but it might be a bit too much win-more indeed. It's quite hard to evaluate without seeing some more cards (and the set around it), tbh.
@oddnanref : Tbh, after some pondering land tokens might be the siimplest way to do this - even though I know some people dislike the very concept of such tokens.
I'm pretty sure this is quite impossible unless really blowing up the reminder text. Even if you don't use tokens as I suggested, both sever as well as these cards work inside the same layer, so time stamps count. You'd need a Archetype of Finality-like wording to get around this..
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oddnanref
3/3 Beast
 
Am I squirrel yet?
Posts: 198
Formerly Known As: Destiny, or full of yourself
Favorite Card: The one that is red and white all over
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Post by oddnanref on May 10, 2018 22:52:23 GMT
Daij_Djan I had to try for the flavor. Oh, well. I had a mechanic that used land tokens. Got changed because basically land tokens get mixed pretty easily, has to use actual cards otherwise you cannot tell if it is tapped and the such. Infiltrator Creature - Alien  When ~ enters the battlefield Terraform a land you control. (Exile a land you control. If you do put one Waste land token on the battlefield.) 1/1 PS: Making your opponent's Oblivion Sower better and better.
Found another way to word the Sever mechanic. It is based on this thread. Sever N land(s) you control (Place a sever counter on it(them). It has/They have "[T]: Add [C]" and loses/lose all other abilities.)
Basically the lands do not need to lose types, which makes it less flavorful in terms of what it is happening in the story but saves the word count by 2. The wording also means that you can sever a land more than once, which does not work with flavor, but I think that for my sanity, I will leave it as is. Makes using multiple colors easier in the set, which was restricted somewhat due to this mechanic, so might need some balancing. PS: Found out that it takes less words, if you include the reminder text, to word the "you control" part of the ability outside the reminder text. Reduces the word count by 2 if reminder text is there, increases the word count by 2 if there is no reminder text. This also leaves open the possibility of severing opponent's lands if you want to, but more interestingly you can sever swamps, mountains, etc. What do you think? Works better? or the proposed Terraform works better as a mechanic?
All this leaves me wanting to just push something for no reason. So, try breaking this card. Attachment Deleted
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Post by wuzzle on May 13, 2018 22:11:06 GMT
It's been a while since I've designed anything. I was hoping someone might be interested in providing some feedback. I've been working with design space that I think may be an area of contention (exile) -- which is reasonable. I was just curious to see how it would play out and would like to give it a shot before shooting it down. Ultimately this card (as well as some others) were made with Commander in mind. So I was hoping to make a few Commander decks, or at least like a toolkit for a round of custom commanders (4-5). The card I guess I'll share first is one of said commanders: I was never really the savviest when it came to making cards, so I was wondering a few things: What do people think about the abilities, casting cost & P/T, as well as the art direction and flavor (dreamshaper -> abilities). I am pretty confident on the casting cost & P/T, but I was hoping for a second opinion. I have been interested in this impulsive draw mechanic that red has been getting. I also am curious to see if people agree with the color combination. I kept changing it between U/R and U/R/G, but I felt like both color combinations could technically be viable for it and I didn't want the extra access. Anyway, nice to be back.
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oddnanref
3/3 Beast
 
Am I squirrel yet?
Posts: 198
Formerly Known As: Destiny, or full of yourself
Favorite Card: The one that is red and white all over
Favorite Set: The one with the new cool things
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Red
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Post by oddnanref on May 13, 2018 23:46:23 GMT
Red does have a pseudo card advantage in Impulse like cards. Colorwise I think this could be mono red, but the activated ability gives me pause and the last ability is definitely not red. Cheating spells into play without playing their mana costs is am Izzet thing sometimes. However, Izzet colors tend to focus more on spells. Abilities like prowess and the such. I do not have much to say in terms of balance and cost-reward related questions. I think a CCM 4 3/3 with two situational abilities is fine. Someone might tell you of a way you can break the card though.
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Post by wuzzle on May 13, 2018 23:57:26 GMT
Thank you for the feedback. I do recall Izzet caring more about instants/sorceries. I also am flip-flopping again on whether or not I want G in her mana cost. I know Temur hasn't had a lot of design yet (as it only recently got the name and went from having 2 cards to a little over 10 since WotC commander series and Khans). The only thing similar is Intet, but his ability randomizes the exile (which might be what I need to do? In which case Urara's last ability could be omitted).
The other two legends I'm making for unique cards specific to Urara's deck focus on instants and sorceries. However, if the idea is that dreams are being made real then creatures could also be a part of that. So maybe Izzet izzent what would make sense in this context. I'll try to do some more digging to see if there are other examples I can use to swing the design one way or another.
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oddnanref
3/3 Beast
 
Am I squirrel yet?
Posts: 198
Formerly Known As: Destiny, or full of yourself
Favorite Card: The one that is red and white all over
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Post by oddnanref on May 14, 2018 0:09:25 GMT
Blue allows for that to happen somewhat. Only on rare occasions from what I remember. The only example that comes to mind is Arbiter of the Ideal. Temur does have free cast things. Take cascade for example.
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kinotherapy
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Post by kinotherapy on May 14, 2018 0:21:47 GMT
This looks decidedly   to me, none of the abilities are really  . You're right about the exile mattering being an area of contention, but if that's the point of the card there's not much point in arguing about it, though you could consider being more specific about what it hits - since it's a commander card your opponents will likely have cards in exile so you could limit it to just cards exiled with Urara or cards you don't own. Just a thought. It should probably be "You may cast a nonland card" though; playing a land without paying its mana cost sounds strange, and limiting it to spells also increases the Izzet Feel if that's important to you. The final ability could benefit from Eminence, e.g: Eminence — As long as Urara, the Dreamseeker is in the command zone or on the battlefield, you may look at the top card of your library. This would change the functionality but feels neater to me. Though I'm now realising she probably stops seeing the top card of the library when she enters because the top card is the dream and the command zone is sleep ok you got me. Still, sometimes strong flavour isn't worth odd gameplay, so you could think about it while playtesting. Nitpick: you can drop Urara's "the Dreamseeker" title after the first appearance of her full name in her rules text.
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Post by wuzzle on May 17, 2018 5:46:21 GMT
Thanks for the suggestions. And yeah, I think there is no need for :G: to be added in her mana cost, as she does feel particularly blue/red. I'll have to think about Eminence. I know it's not necessarily tribal-only, though it was used only in the most recent tribal commander sets. However you are right about the "dream" and yeah, I guess I'll have to see how people feel about it once playtesting begins. I have a couple of other cards I've made with commander in mind. These are more general one-offs, as in they don't have their own toolkits (yet). I am not sure if they ever will, but I meant to upload them a while ago and completely forgot: In relation to the Orzhov one, I was trying to go for something a bit different from what I've seen so far in :W::B:. I did use Extort, but I felt it paired nicely with the other ability I gave her. Let me know what you think -- I'm not sure if the second ability is too lenient, too harsh, just right etc. The Gruul commander's second ability may be... way too powerful. I know it's technically situational, but if you're playing gruul you're probably going to have some fatties, right? I am now noticing that they are all 3/3s... which isn't exactly on purpose (they were designed at different times with different thoughts in mind). Her cost seems a bit too aggressive for me, as I had played around with 4 cmc and 5 cmc with varying bodies depending on the cmc. Are there any suggestions? Does this seem like something Gruul could use? I also think her second ability is incredibly powerful. Initially I was going to say that she and the creature with the greatest power you control can't be blocked, but that isn't very red/green. I know that second ability needs to change, I just thought I'd open it up to the board here.   Okay, I edited Erran's second ability to read: "Creatures your opponents control with power less than the attacking creature you control with the greatest power can’t block this turn."
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oddnanref
3/3 Beast
 
Am I squirrel yet?
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Post by oddnanref on May 17, 2018 22:40:28 GMT
wuzzleThe Orzhov commander seems okay in a normal deck. I mean her ability is repeatable but it is almost a 1 for 1 correlation. Makes it hard to get what you want from the blue decks. If it is on a combo deck it is pretty strong, even with the life payment. Thankfully it is limited to once per round. So all the other two-three-four people have a chance to respond to the card disadvantage. The color combination has little to no extra turns and the protection can only get you a 1 for 1. Seems okay. In vintage it is a little overcoats to be playable and the 3/3 means it does to bolt, adding it is a CCM 4, it it easily removed by a fatal push, and the all so ever present Swords to powshares. Any way this is not going for legacy playability though. The Gruul commander has abilities that seem a little off. She is mana efficient though. You can give your creatures trample. Green's form of evasion. If you are not satisfied give them something like an tremmor effect. Creature's without flying can't block this turn. I have not seen a specific thing that makes one creature unblockable. Okay read the rework on her last ability. Other than being wordy it seems fine. It is a worse champion of lamholt effect. Not sure why you want her draw ability to scale with her power, not like you are going to be trying to not draw, and usually you will have to keep track of it so you know if you are drawing or not. I like her concept though.
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Post by Flo00 on May 21, 2018 0:00:39 GMT
I thought with the Saga frame, I could also do instants and sorceries that work a bit like sagas. Something like this: The Great Warrior  Instant - Story (When you cast this, add a lore counter. If it resolves with I or II, exile it and you may cast this from exile. It keeps its conters until III resolves.)I: Target creature gains haste until end of turn. II: Target creature gains menace until end of turn. III: Target creature gains first strike until end of turn. There might be some better way to do the reminder. The lore counters determine what mode resolves and the official (not reminder) text would be some Skullbriar-like stuff. And for this specific card: Is it too powerful as an instant? Or should it be  ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 5:05:40 GMT
Flo00: No Skullbriar babble, counters can be put everywhere, even on the stack. Skullbriar babble is there because it changes zones. Your Stories have those counters in exile only.
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oddnanref
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Post by oddnanref on May 21, 2018 10:10:39 GMT
@gorgonzola There is a way to do it without the babble, but the card does change zones doesn't it? Exile to stack and stack to exile. Aside from the obvious han to stack. Flo00I think the card would have it easier with a suspend like wording instead of the complicated counters and the often changing of zones. Try something like: Story cost You may cast this card for its story cost. If you do put it in exike with three lore counters in it. At the beginning of your upkeep remove a lore counter and do foo. Normal casting would just do an effect of your choice, or the first effect or the last one. Up to you really. Something like that. This obviously need working.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 13:07:42 GMT
oddnanref: Yes, but it only has counters in exile, not on the stack.
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oddnanref
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Post by oddnanref on May 21, 2018 16:27:50 GMT
@gorgonzola It has to keep the counters on the stack, otherwise it will always cast I or II.
Take this for example, player has 14 ::R::. Cast the card, effect, gets exiled with one counter. Cast the card loses all counters due to the changing of zones, does either effect I or II, not sure which one happens. Gets exiled, place a counter on it. Card has one counter in exile, cast it from exile, loses all counters casts effect I or II.
Unless it keep the counters through the zones, it will always have one counter when it enters exile.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 17:52:27 GMT
oddnanref: So this is how Flo00 wants it to work. Better off as a Saga IMO.
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Post by Daij_Djan on May 21, 2018 19:39:01 GMT
Well, to be fair the Skullbriar does allow the counters to stay while changing zones - obviously as it's pretty much the point of the ability. I'd interpret the third sentence of the reminder text to be meant this way (and as we all know reminder text can be a bit vague) which indeed fits Flo00's explanation - so I have to admit I don't really understand the discussion about whether it works within the rules? It does work as intended, question only is if it's a good idea, no? As to that question, I'm personally not sure - simply because the current Sagas basically already are delayed sorceries to begin with imho.
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Post by Flo00 on May 21, 2018 23:39:54 GMT
Thanks for all the feedback and discussion. Yes I want it to get the counters when first cast while it's on the stack and then remain on it when being exiled and recast. oddnanref: What you are suggesting is just another way to do sagas (from exile instead of enchantments). What i want is a little more flaxibility in when the effect happens. e.g. my example card can be cast during one turn or I can keep it in exile until I really need those other abilities. Also as a side effect it can be used to trigger prowess and friends three times for just one card.
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oddnanref
3/3 Beast
 
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Favorite Card: The one that is red and white all over
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Post by oddnanref on May 22, 2018 0:38:00 GMT
You are right, maybe something like this? 
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Post by Flo00 on May 22, 2018 7:50:11 GMT
I also thought of something like this. It looks cleaner than I imagined it. You can't really do the I & II thing that way, but that doesn't really bother me.
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oddnanref
3/3 Beast
 
Am I squirrel yet?
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Formerly Known As: Destiny, or full of yourself
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Post by oddnanref on May 22, 2018 11:29:00 GMT
Flo00Okay, now that we have one thing out of the discussion. Let's start with another. The idea for the mechanic is interesting, however I think you are going to find it is hard to make the mechanic's identity distinguishable enough from the Saga mechanic. Sure, it offers more flexibility on when you get the effects, but you still gain those effects like a Saga. Thematically it is also hard to distinguish a story from a Saga as they are basically the same things (irl). The cards with said mechanic offer virtual card advantage, and your design space is affected a little as casting the card from exile means it is hard to disrupt the second and third abilities using hand disruption. Giving the card flashback will make it reusable in the intended version of it. It is like having cards with aftermath for exile. Finally, sorcery versions of this mechanic will look even more like sagas. On the power level of the card. Consider the card as being a ::R::::R::::R:: target creature gets haste, menace and first strike. With such a low casting cost it is better to evaluate the card as such. There are not many cards that have those abilities combined, nor that grant all three at once. So just by being one of the few that allows that flexibility and does that it becomes extremely useful. The individual abilities are fine by themselves at CCM 1. Overall, it might be a little powerful, though not sure if we have no tests done. It is an interesting idea, and as a instant and sorcery version of the saga mechanic it works.
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Post by Flo00 on May 22, 2018 20:40:09 GMT
Thanks for the feedback 
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ruien
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Post by ruien on May 25, 2018 2:31:45 GMT
Lithified Roc Land ~ ETB tapped.  : Add  . Whenever three or more creatures you control attack, you may pay   and sacrifice ~. If you do, create a tapped and attacking 6/6 white Bird creature token with flying.
I like this a lot and am considering incorporating it into my cube. However, what I want is a tap and sacrifice for the effect, and I'm looking for advice on templating that ability. Here are a couple of options:
Whenever three or more creatures you control attack, if ~ is untapped, you may tap it, pay   , and sacrifice it. If you do, create a tapped and attacking 6/6 white Bird creature token with flying.
  ,  , sacrifice ~: Create a tapped and attacking 6/6 white Bird creature token with flying. Activate this ability only during your declare attackers step, and only if three or more creatures you control are attacking.
  ,  , sacrifice ~: Create a tapped and attacking 6/6 white Bird creature token with flying. Activate this ability only during your declare attackers step, and only if you control three or more attacking creatures.
In any case I want to avoid tapping the card in response to its triggered ability to pay for it, making tapping part of the cost. Do both of these approaches work? If they do, which is better, or can anyone think of any other templating that's even cleaner?
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Post by Flo00 on May 25, 2018 8:17:16 GMT
Maybe like Windbrisk Heights?   ,  , Sacrifice ~: Create a tapped and attacking 6/6 white Bird creature token with flying. Activate this ability only during your declare attackers step, and only if you attacked with three or more creatures this turn.
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ruien
0/0 Germ
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Post by ruien on May 25, 2018 9:19:55 GMT
Maybe like Windbrisk Heights?   ,  , Sacrifice ~: Create a tapped and attacking 6/6 white Bird creature token with flying. Activate this ability only during your declare attackers step, and only if you attacked with three or more creatures this turn. Works for me
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DisposableHero
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Post by DisposableHero on May 26, 2018 14:39:28 GMT
Hey pals! Working on a new project, and I'm looking for some input on balancing some mechanics. {"Nirvana "} CW02 — Cloaked Divinity  Creature — Angel :common: Vigilance Nirvana — If you have at least 7 life more than your starting life total, CW02 — Cloaked Divinity gets +3/+3 and has flying. 1/2 RW01 — Glimmering Archangel  Creature — Angel :rare: Flying, lifelink Nirvana — If you have at least 7 life more than your starting life total, RW01 — Glimmering Archangel has hexproof from black and from red. 5/5 UW01 — Divine Right  Enchantment — Aura :uncommon: Enchant creature Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and has flying. Nirvana — If you have at least 5 life more than your starting life total, enchanted creature has hexproof from black. CU03 — Church Constable  Creature — Human Cleric  Prowess Nirvana — If you have at least 7 life more than your starting life total, CU03 — Church Constable can’t be blocked. 1/3 CG02 — Apostle of Brawn  Creature — Human Cleric  Nirvana — If you have at least 7 life more than your starting life total, CG02 — Apostle of Brawn has trample. 4/4 UG01 — Divine Guardianship :1::G: Instant  Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn. Nirvana — If you have at least 5 life more than your starting life total, create a 1/1 colorless Spirit creature token. I'm concerned that 7 life is too high a benchmark on Nirvana, especially in limited, while I'm equally concerned that the number is too low for Flagellate. I'm also trying to create more mechanics that tie in with the top-down religion and life-total themes of the set, so any suggestions would be awesome!
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Post by voltaic-qui on May 26, 2018 15:17:55 GMT
I would not have Path of Bravery type mechanics as a keyword in any context, because those abilities will never trigger in limited unless 1) you're maindecking lifegain (why) 2) you have a lot of lifelinkers at common, in which case the game never ends because no one can win the race I would definitely not have both Flagellate and Nirvana in the same set because they are mutually exclusive. I'd have a pseudo that cares if you gained/lost life this turn so that they're less useless
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mrchristianpunk
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Post by mrchristianpunk on May 26, 2018 20:03:48 GMT
How would I word this mechanic? I'm trying to make it so you exile the card, then creating a "rune" that you can tap to gain the ability to cast a copy of the exiled spell until end of turn. 
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mocandragon5
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Post by mocandragon5 on May 26, 2018 20:13:59 GMT
mrchristianpunkI think it would be best as a pseudo keyword, as each rune would be substantially different. In this case, something like: "Etch    -    , Exile ~ from your hand: Create a colorless Rune artifact token with "   ,  : Exile target creature or planeswalker." Its wordy, but is probably the best way to do it, as I don't think you can cast a copy of a card unless it was exiled by the object itself, a la Isochron Scepter. I could be wrong tough.
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Post by Flo00 on May 26, 2018 22:09:12 GMT
mrchristianpunk I also think this would be better as a pseudo (aka ability word) How about this: Etch -    , Exile ~ from your hand: Create a colorless Rune artifact token with "T: Copy a card named ~ you own in exile. You may cast it." Both my and mocandragon5's text has the problem that if you'd do a sorcery you'd have to add the extra text to only activate it sorcery speed to the rune.
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