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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 12, 2022 5:08:30 GMT
Ok, people, we're behind schedule here, so let's get started! Going live in 5...
4...
3, cue themesong...
2...
1...
Hello, and welcome to The MageLaughlin Group. We're here admiring the squalor that's actually pretty close to my actual home. I figured that for desolate holes that are furthest from a bright center of The Multiverse, no hives are more wretched, none more filled with scum &/or villainy, and none are better suited to hiding out until the heat dies down than my old hometown. While we're here, if anyone asks you "How much?", it's best just to assume they're propositioning you for sex, and not trying to sell you some illegal drugs. I speak from prior experience, even though that guy actually was trying to sell me some illegal drugs.
Anyway, joining me as always are my esteemed panel: Daij_Djan, ZephyrPhantom, ArkiThe7th, & foureyesisafish; and if dangerousdice is still out there somewhere, your seat's still waiting for you, and it misses your ass something quite fierce.
Before any of you have any time to contemplate the meaning, syntax, dialectical accuracy, or implications of that last statement, let's get right on into our First Question, from ZephyrPhantom:
Over the past decade, WoTC has stated repeatedly that Kamigawa was not considered popular enough to be featured again as a returning set, and yet in 2022, here we are. What do you think changed? |
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Post by Daij_Djan on Mar 13, 2022 1:32:06 GMT
Welcome back, everyone! Sounds like we're really meeting in a rather precarious place this time – not that life here in Europe would be smooth sailing right now – even though for a completely different type of reason.. Anyway, gues I'll rather move on to our question at hand: Over the past decade, WoTC has stated repeatedly that Kamigawa was not considered popular enough to be featured again as a returning set, and yet in 2022, here we are. What do you think changed? Ironically, MaRo covered this very topic in one of his recent podcasts. According to him, the biggest issues with the old block were: - Its mechanics were horrible. In fact, Kamigawa is nowadays considered having the worst „mechanical identity“ (or whichever term he used
 ) of any modern Magic blocks. - Back then, Japanese culture, especially the important ancient kami references, weren't really known much at all here in the west – so much of the flavor was lost.
- Making every rare a legend as a theme was a miss worthy of a seperate note – as they say: when everyone is
special legendary, noone is..
So, what has changed? - The mechanics are still horrible Thankfully, a new block allows for a new start.
- Japanese media has become a much bigger thing in western popculture. Maybe still not much of the old kami lore, but more modern topics for sure..
- Commander is a thing nowadays – so Kamigawa featuring so many legends increased interest in the sets over time.
Still, apparently when WotC started with Neon Dynasty, they weren't sure whether they should return to Kamigawa or go with an entirely new Japanese flavored plane. MaRo apparently made sure they left themselves both options when initial design started – till they decided on the „old vs new“ theme of the block. That was apparently when they finally decided we'd get return to Kamigawa for real. But even with all of this in mind – it's pretty clear WotC did everything to make this set as popular as possible by also pushing into new mediums for advertising. The normal trailer, the anime trailer, the first ever soundtrack, I also saw some sort of music video if I recall..? Yeah, they really went all-out with this set. |
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ArkiThe7th
1/1 Squirrel
Any plant is edible if you’re not a coward.
Posts: 82
Favorite Card: Wee Dragonauts
Favorite Set: Pauper Masters (wait a second...)
Color Alignment: Blue, Red
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Post by ArkiThe7th on Mar 14, 2022 6:26:48 GMT
Honestly, I feel like most of the dislike of Kamigawa among the player base never actually came from the content, but rather the place MTG was in when Kamigawa came out. Kamigawa was right after Mirrodin, while affinity and Cranial Plating were dominating the game. Kamigawa was a pretty underpowered set, so it didn’t do much to help with the existing problems, leaving a lot of players with a bad taste in their mouths. I also agree that Japanese media has become much more mainstream in Western culture, nowadays. I actually think R&D did a really good job of balancing the old Kamigawa charm with some of the more modern and mainstream references. It would’ve been easy to just toss aside Kamigawa and go all in on the Cyberpunk and mech stuff. |
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foureyesisafish
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 388
Favorite Set: Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
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Post by foureyesisafish on Mar 14, 2022 15:20:36 GMT
The answer? Probably both that WOTC was underestimating how popular Kamigawa (as a world, not the block) was and that Japanese culture has become way more prominent nowadays. And apparently (don't quote me on this) Kamigawa standard was actually quite good. At least, Kamigawa-Ravnica was.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 16, 2022 21:11:13 GMT
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Mar 17, 2022 11:01:16 GMT
I've been feeling a little under the weather lately, so my responses might be a bit short or slow this time around. I agree with the general sentiments of what everyone's said but have some additional thoughts: I think it's interesting that people bring up the mainstream appeal of Japanese culture because from my general knowledge, that was a big problem for original Kamigawa in a different way - people back then were still expecting mechs and contemporary anime references, only to get thrown off by the heavy leanings into Shintoism. It did have its own distinct flavor and appeal but I tend to hear of it as something that was appealing in hindsight rather than in the moment. That said, I do think the increasing mainstream appeal of Japanese culture still helped it a long way. Bad mechanics - Not entirely. Channel is yet another cycling variant and Ninjutsu allows for a fairly aggressive form of play from Ninjas that is distinct from Modenr day Dimir Rogues, something I imagine a lot of people are beginning to experience the joys of now that Kamigawa is back in standard. Ninjas have really benefited from this time in the spotlight as a ton of aggressive Ninjas have been printed to further build on a strategy that has been established as far as back as Ninja of the Deep Hours and slowly built up with variants like Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow and Ingenious Infiltrator. I feel like it's also worth pointing out that Samurai's second go-around also gave them a mechanic (Exalted, in this case) that does not exactly seem to be going well for them, with most 'useful' Samurai being very good one-offs like Isshin, Two Heavens as One or Reinforced RoninOverall I agree the most with Arki on this one - despite what people might think, being able to play cards is important and cards do have a better shot at being played if they're powerful. Kamigawa back then had a strong impression of consisting of mostly weak/janky unfun cards despite contributing countless staples and powerhouses in the long run Gifts Ungiven, Through the Breach, Goryo's Vengeance, Umezawa's Jitte, Sensei's Diving Top, Glimpse of Nature, Lava Spike, etc...., and the cards that did have immediate impact like Jitte and Top presumably only worsened people's already bitter sentiments towards things like Affinity - i.e. there was not a very distinct 'Kamigawa' playstyle that was satisfying and fun, unlike Neon Dynasty today. I think, looking back at that list, though, it's important that most if not all cards on this list are noncreatures, too. Generally players (esp. new ones) tend to look more instinctively at creatures to see if they're exciting if they're not specialized towards a certain deck. So while the powerful cards were making a bad situation worse I think the original Kamigawa also had yet another negative point going for it on the whole that didn't appeal to new players unlike how Neon Dynasty does now, in that regard. |
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Post by Daij_Djan on Mar 17, 2022 15:33:37 GMT
Bad mechanics - Not entirely. Channel ... and Ninjutsu OK, that's true. As MaRo said: Ninjutsu is a good mechanic and an absolute fan-favorite. They knew they had to include it despite its anti-synergy with Modified. Channel is a bit like Cycling and Kicker - a bit boring but it works - which is why it was chosen as the second returning mechanic. But other than those two, there really were not many options to go with.
Still, the rather weak powerlevel especially after Mirrodin's heights is indeed an issue I had glossed over, agree with all of you there  |
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Mar 17, 2022 15:45:18 GMT
Bad mechanics - Not entirely. Channel ... and Ninjutsu OK, that's true. As MaRo said: Ninjutsu is a good mechanic and an absolute fan-favorite. They knew they had to include it despite its anti-synergy with Modified. Channel is a bit like Cycling and Kicker - a bit boring but it works - which is why it was chosen as the second returning mechanic. But other than those two, there really were not many options to go with. Still, the rather weak powerlevel especially after Mirrodin's heights is indeed an issue I had glossed over, agree with all of you there A lot of the mechanics also generally suffered from just being put on underpowered cards or not having the support at the time. Arcane does matter in certain decks like Twiddle Storm where splicing Psychic Puppetry repeatedly is a must to untap Lotus Field, Flip Cards are essentially proto-DFCs (the way Sagas transform in Neon Dynasty come to mind), Shrines have become considerably more useful with two rounds of new prints, and Enduring Ideal was part of at least one enchantment prison lock back in the day. So that's 6/12 mechanics listed there that either still see use today, had a significant use not related to Mirrodin back then, or got a second run that proved they could indeed be useful in a compelling way. Not saying it wasn't bad but in the grand scheme of things it's interesting how original Kamigawa's not quite the absolute stinker people tend to remember it being. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 17, 2022 16:36:31 GMT
I otoh have always been a Kamigawa apologist. Any set or block that gives use something so powerful, and so beloved by both casuals and hardcores alike, as Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is automatically one of the best sets/blocks in the game's history, almost completely independent of anything else in that set/block.
I will say, however, that R&D greatly overestimated the necessary cost-to-utility ratio of soulshift, by an average of at least  - across the board.
Our next Question comes from Daij_Djan, and is sort of a followup to the First: What do you think of Neon Dynasty's mechanics, themes, whatever? |
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Mar 17, 2022 17:46:54 GMT
Rushing it out while I can, I suppose: Ninjas - Absolute win. Most new Ninja cards properly encourage what the original strategies already do while being solid additions in their own right and having plenty of room for quirky things like Satoru Umezawa that might not fit into the main tribal but encourage doing other interesting things. Mechs - Likewise, everything about Vehicles feels really good and it's honestly great that Vehicle existed just so Kamigawa could capitalize on it. It's a very popular and resonant theme even for people not that familiar with anime and the way Pilots support them is both intuitive and satisfying. Shrines - Not as earth-shaking, but at this point they're an archetype that can't hurt from getting more, especially cheaper ones. Good to see them back. Samurai - On the other hand, I think these were really weak in terms of design. The "attack alone" theme is really parasitic partially because it doesn't even work that well with the previous Samurai (or Boros aggro strategies as a whole) and I really think it shouldn't have been tribe-locked. Many Samurai as individual cards are exciting (Reinforced Ronin in particular) but unlike the other archetypes mentioned above their cohesive is lacking and trying to put them together just feels awkward. Enchantment creatures vs. artifact creatures - A really neat way to show the clash of old and new and magic vs technology. I feel like the cards that encouraged the two being used together were very neat, too, felt more mechanically resonant than Ikoria's attempt to awkwardly jam the bonders in between the monsters and the hunters. Reconfigure - It feels like Living Weapon, but rebalanced so that it can be killed with creature removal, and it's honestly really neat. There's bunch of efficient stuff like Rabbit Battery that feel like they're their own distinct cards despite fitting into typical deck roles. Modified - Feels more like a good solid background mechancic that helps tie all the differing themes together. Think it was appropriate introduced and used here. Compleated - I'm not really a fan of the explanation for how the Reality Chip works (as in, "It rewrites reality") to justify it, but otherwise, good teaser. Other draft archetypes not mentioned: A bit harder to bring them up without proper names or noteworthy things but I think WG enchantress particular seems well done and the rest seem alright. |
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Post by Daij_Djan on Mar 17, 2022 18:54:32 GMT
Won't answer my own question right now (mostly since I want to have a bit more time for that one ), but I quickly wanted to respond to ZephyrPhantom's response  First of all, I only had the named mechanics (and not the themes) in mind when I made my statement – which means linking to the CotW probably wasn't a wise choice in the first place But much more importantly: This is probably because the two of us have very different approaches to Magic in general, but I heavily disagree with the concept of „the mechanic is fine since mechanics featuring it see play.“ By that logic, the more powerful and even broken a mechanic is, the better it would be. So Affinity, Storm, the original Companion would all be good mechanics – and I really cannot agree with this. As a general rule for me, when talking about a mechanic itself, it's the mechanic that matters and not the cards it was put onto. Card examples can help evaluating, but they should never be the base of the evaluation imho. My take (and according to the podcast mostly WotC's as well) would be: - Ninjutsu is pretty much the most iconic mechanic of original Kamigawa.
- Channel as mentioned above: Generic, but save.
- Splice onto Arcane: Highly parasitic, leads to repetitive gameplay.
- Soulshift: Also repetitive, though was as already mentioned indeed used on very underpowered cards so that never was an issue, I guess
- Epic: And once again repetitive – to the max here – while fundamentally going against the concept of Magic in general (playing your cards).
- Sweep: Is Sweep.
- Bushido: For me would also fall under the rather bland but save category – according to MaRo they don't like the gameplay it creates though.
- Offering and Flip have both evolved into new things since. Also Flip is a bit different anyway since its issues are coming from an entirely different area (cropped text boxes & art space, also tapping) than all the other cards'.
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Mar 17, 2022 19:09:39 GMT
I don't mean to say every card featuring the mechanic is good but rather that there is a clear benchmark where the mechanic is "ok" and useful. Arcane may have been initially parasitic and hasn't gotten new cards but time has been kind to it because many Arcane cards have become more synergistic with new cards, which shows that it wouldn't have to be a complete dumpster fire if it was ever revisited.
(Sorry, I don't think I have time to respond beyond that, but at the same time I feel like my position here is being misstated and I wanted to try and clarify)
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Post by Daij_Djan on Mar 17, 2022 19:14:06 GMT
(Sorry, I don't think I have time to respond beyond that, but at the same time I feel like my position here is being misstated and I wanted to try and clarify) Don't worry, I get what you mean.
We both evaluted the mechanics in two very differnt ways - and with your approach, your previous answer does indeed make sence |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 18, 2022 8:56:13 GMT
Won't answer my own question right now (mostly since I want to have a bit more time for that one  ), but I quickly wanted to respond to ZephyrPhantom 's response  First of all, I only had the named mechanics (and not the themes) in mind when I made my statement – which means linking to the CotW probably wasn't a wise choice in the first place But much more importantly: This is probably because the two of us have very different approaches to Magic in general, but I heavily disagree with the concept of „the mechanic is fine since mechanics featuring it see play.“ By that logic, the more powerful and even broken a mechanic is, the better it would be. So Affinity, Storm, the original Companion would all be good mechanics – and I really cannot agree with this. As a general rule for me, when talking about a mechanic itself, it's the mechanic that matters and not the cards it was put onto. Card examples can help evaluating, but they should never be the base of the evaluation imho. My take (and according to the podcast mostly WotC's as well) would be: - Ninjutsu is pretty much the most iconic mechanic of original Kamigawa.
- Channel as mentioned above: Generic, but save.
- Splice onto Arcane: Highly parasitic, leads to repetitive gameplay.
- Soulshift: Also repetitive, though was as already mentioned indeed used on very underpowered cards so that never was an issue, I guess
- Epic: And once again repetitive – to the max here – while fundamentally going against the concept of Magic in general (playing your cards).
- Sweep: Is Sweep.
- Bushido: For me would also fall under the rather bland but save category – according to MaRo they don't like the gameplay it creates though.
- Offering and Flip have both evolved into new things since. Also Flip is a bit different anyway since its issues are coming from an entirely different area (cropped text boxes & art space, also tapping) than all the other cards'.
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ArkiThe7th
1/1 Squirrel
Any plant is edible if you’re not a coward.
Posts: 82
Favorite Card: Wee Dragonauts
Favorite Set: Pauper Masters (wait a second...)
Color Alignment: Blue, Red
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Post by ArkiThe7th on Mar 19, 2022 11:32:57 GMT
I otoh have always been a Kamigawa apologist. Any set or block that gives use something so powerful, and so beloved by both casuals and hardcores alike, as Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is automatically one of the best sets/blocks in the game's history, almost completely independent of anything else in that set/block.
I will say, however, that R&D greatly overestimated the necessary cost-to-utility ratio of soulshift, by an average of at least - across the board.
Our next Question comes from Daij_Djan , and is sort of a followup to the First: What do you think of Neon Dynasty's mechanics, themes, whatever? There’s not much I can say for a lot of the mechanics other than “I like them.” Most of them seem to work well. Reconfigure is probably the star of the show in my opinion (even if it’s a bit annoying to play against sometimes). I agree with ZephyrPhantom that samurais were pretty underwhelming. Boros is one of my favorite color combinations 1, so I was looking forward to trying out the samurais, but they just never worked. It was really disappointing. The whole “exalted” theme didn’t work very well due to a combination of my opponents just killing my creatures, and needing a critical mass of samurais to function properly. The “balance” theme with having an artifact and an enchantment in play felt kind of boring to me? It seemed pretty powerful, and I got crushed by it in a couple drafts. The theme just doesn’t feel very flashy compared to the other stuff I could play in Kamigawa. That might just be a me problem, though. 1: Let’s be honest: any color combination with red is Arki’s favorite color combination. |
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Mar 19, 2022 20:11:39 GMT
I tried really hard to make Samurai work, haha. Have a bunch of decks to show for it, most of them terrible.
I think there's something there with modified-matters ones specifically but I haven't had time to play that list.
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foureyesisafish
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 388
Favorite Set: Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
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Post by foureyesisafish on Mar 20, 2022 16:02:09 GMT
From my personal experience, Samurai can be really good in Sealed, and they have a lot of good rares supporting them. I think that in a vacuum Samurai are really freaking good, but they have a bad matchup with one of the best decks in the format (Ninjas) so fall down the ladder.
#selflesssamuraishould'vebeencommon
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 20, 2022 18:05:25 GMT
While I agree that Ninjas are the besest, most awesomest thing EVAR1, I feel like we could've used at least a couple reprints (or updated designs2).
The consensus that Samurai are individually powerful, but their synergies are rather weak is certainly confirmed by my experiences playing against them.
The Shrines deck was already annoyingly unbeatable without River's Rebuke, so it's interesting to see it get some new toys.
How R&D arrived at the balance of Enchantments & tradition vs. Artifacts & innovation proves the robustness of The Color Pie once again.
You all already know my love for the stupid awesomeness that is mechs. I just wish we could've used a little D&D tech and had something like "+2 to crewing".
Channel feels like the first step to admitting that, like kicker, cycling is too broad of a mechanic.
Teferi: Actually, {type}cycling was that first step, if you want to get technical.
Well, typecycling felt more like a natural extension of the mechanic. Channel feels more like an admission.
Teferi: Whatever you say, man.
Moving on, I feel like they could've done just a wee bit more with reconfigure, but I guess they were saving some innovation for next time.
Other than that, I agree with all y'all.
Ok, our next Question comes from ZephyrPhantom : Secret Lair: The Walking Dead gathered a lot of hate from social media despite being one of the best selling Secret Lairs. With Secret Lair: Street Fighter having a generally better social media reception, do you believe the right franchise and good design can sell people on the concept? What about Magic concepts in general that people say "No, it'll never work?"
1I know nobody likes doing it, but I have to talk about the coronavirus. When this pandemic began, I joked that I was gonna tell future people that at one point, errbody just decided to be ninjas, because ninjas are awesome. But some poor, deluded fools inexplicably didn't want to be ninjas, and their reasons for doing so were just as baffling as their decision.
2No, I do not consider Dokuchi Silencer an updated design. An updated design would be a Throat Slitter with more modern (read: either higher, or with first strike and deathtouch) stats, and no restriction on what it can kill. [/p] |
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Post by Daij_Djan on Mar 20, 2022 19:08:56 GMT
I hope you don't mind me answering my previous question first? I guess I'll go though a few different topics.. - I love the flavor, the artwork, and the general themes so much. Going with „old vs new“, „tradition vs technology“ was such a clever move to profit of this plane's nostalgia while also introducing a whole different flavor at the same time.. Combining this ingame with an „artifact vs enchantment theme“ was also clever. Keep all of my following evaluations with a grain of salt though as I haven't played with the set at all by this point – since I'm still pretty much boycotting Arena. I am feeling tempted though..
- Also I really liked all the additional media stuff they did – at least the things I know of. Having an official soundtrack is a really interesting idea, though I've been a fan of Jonathan Young for quite some time anyway (even though interestingly I otherwise don't really like Metal at all), so it was easy to satisfy me on that front, I guess
- As far as the mechanics are concerned, Ninjutsu is still awesome and Channel works fine. Reconfigure is a very cool take on Licids – definitely my favorite new mechanic of the set – and Modified indeed ties the themes together in a fine way just as ZephyrPhantom already mentioned. Compleated is.. a thing, I guess. The way the starting loyalty scales with the life payment is clever, but it's still phyrexian mana. Also to me phyrexian hybrid mana was a bit much – especially as the first compleated planeswalker ever..
- As far as the other mechanical themes are concerned.. Artifacts vs enchantmants as mentioned was clever, I really wished for some better payoffs for playing both – I pondered for the Deckbuilder's Challenge and wasn't really happy with the options to be honest. Mechs plus Pilots is cool – nice to now have an official wording btw – and Sagas should be deciduous anyway (EDIT: They are!). The Shrines, as much as I loved them in the past, are a bit wierd for me this time. Being Enchantment Creatures with an enchantment but no creature subtype while for me not being a rules issue thing (even though it was very confusing for others apparently) is just awkward..
- One last thing I wanted to bring up is this sets official survery, which I found quite interesting at times. It was really, really long first of all (like seriously), and most questions were quite expected („what do you think of the mechanics?“, „which medium do you use to play?“, „which format(s) do you enjoy?“ <Alchemy-less Historic – thankfully we were allowed to type in others, so I tried >, etc.) but some stuck out to me for different reasons.. From the top of my head, I can remember three:
Will answer the next question later – had just typed my response while getitng ninja'd |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 21, 2022 16:30:18 GMT
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 24, 2022 17:30:12 GMT
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Mar 24, 2022 18:26:09 GMT
Some more quick answers from the not so rosy garden: So, many years ago, I think I would've asked this question about Planeswalkers doing things at instant speed (with The Wanderer being the most recent example of how this has become more of the norm.) A few years ago, it would've been lower rarity planeswalkers, and most recently, it would've been phasing. Those are all mechanical examples but I'm sure more flavor/flavor-breaking ones exist. (Neowalkers/Post Time Spiral walkers come to mind) I think it's easy to get cynical and say that all the new things Magic are doing can wreck the game very easily, but given enough time and revisits on an idea you can really make something good out of it. As long as the existing part of the game can still be played faithfully and the old and the new can mesh together via deckbuilding*, I think it's okay to keep iterating on these cards to try and make something meaningfully interesting out of them. The Innistrad versions of the Stranger Things cards comes to mind; like if the idea had been killed early on, we wouldn't have these neat more flavorful takes on Commanders. *As mentioned before, this is why I don't like digital cards that can change on a whim. **The one caveat I will say to this is that experiments like these should stay low power casual stuff so that they don't permanently reshape how the game is perceived on a larger scale level. Rick, Steadfast Leader having been considered for Humans at all was a mistake, as funny as I did find the attempts to make him fit into Legacy Humans for the short run people were really angry about the TWD cards, I do think there's some merit to decks staying primarily Magic-flavored. tl;dr Give everything a chance in moderation. |
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Post by Daij_Djan on Mar 24, 2022 23:56:33 GMT
Just passing by right now - but should be able to respond tomorrow!
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ArkiThe7th
1/1 Squirrel
Any plant is edible if you’re not a coward.
Posts: 82
Favorite Card: Wee Dragonauts
Favorite Set: Pauper Masters (wait a second...)
Color Alignment: Blue, Red
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Post by ArkiThe7th on Mar 25, 2022 8:17:03 GMT
Some more quick answers from the not so rosy garden: So, many years ago, I think I would've asked this question about Planeswalkers doing things at instant speed (with The Wanderer being the most recent example of how this has become more of the norm.) A few years ago, it would've been lower rarity planeswalkers, and most recently, it would've been phasing. Those are all mechanical examples but I'm sure more flavor/flavor-breaking ones exist. (Neowalkers/Post Time Spiral walkers come to mind) I think it's easy to get cynical and say that all the new things Magic are doing can wreck the game very easily, but given enough time and revisits on an idea you can really make something good out of it. As long as the existing part of the game can still be played faithfully and the old and the new can mesh together via deckbuilding*, I think it's okay to keep iterating on these cards to try and make something meaningfully interesting out of them. The Innistrad versions of the Stranger Things cards comes to mind; like if the idea had been killed early on, we wouldn't have these neat more flavorful takes on Commanders. *As mentioned before, this is why I don't like digital cards that can change on a whim. **The one caveat I will say to this is that experiments like these should stay low power casual stuff so that they don't permanently reshape how the game is perceived on a larger scale level. Rick, Steadfast Leader having been considered for Humans at all was a mistake, as funny as I did find the attempts to make him fit into Legacy Humans for the short run people were really angry about the TWD cards, I do think there's some merit to decks staying primarily Magic-flavored. tl;dr Give everything a chance in moderation. What!? Nuance!? Not in my collectable card game discussions! In all seriousness, I think you hit the nail on the head here. I'm not a fan of the IP-based secret lairs, and would never play with their cards 1, but I don't think it's possible for them to single-handedly ruin the game. Magic's proven itself as a pretty formidable game. Even when WotC really messes up, they're able to clean up and move on. Magic's player base is resilient as well. As much as we love to get upset about Secret Lairs or busted mechanics, they're usually not the reason people stop playing .
1: If he could afford those cards, anyway. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 25, 2022 16:21:49 GMT
Ral, I swear to all the Gods and on all that's holy, if you post that, I will silence you for two months! Some of us are still suffering from the trauma!
Ral: 8:37. Problem, officer? |
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Post by Daij_Djan on Mar 27, 2022 19:43:18 GMT
Me and my deadlines, right? There is one thing I noticed I didn't mention when answering the previous question when I talked about the fourteen unique promo templates & artworks: As much as I kind of complain about the insane number, I have to admit I like most of the styles. Especially these are awesome.. Now let's move on: Ok, our next Question comes from ZephyrPhantom : Secret Lair: The Walking Dead gathered a lot of hate from social media despite being one of the best selling Secret Lairs. With Secret Lair: Street Fighter having a generally better social media reception, do you believe the right franchise and good design can sell people on the concept? What about Magic concepts in general that people say "No, it'll never work?" and myself talked quite a bit about the Walking Dead Secret Lair back then, and I think t5he biggest reason for the outcry was the cards being mechanically unique yet never supposed to get a „normal“ Magic reprint. This made many people hate them but at the same time makes it obvious why it sold so well: It basically created a new Reserved List, and we all know how the prices of those cards are going.. I was not at all suprised by Walking Dead selling well despite the controversy – it simply was a safe money investment (which made WotC's response à la „see, it sold well – we told you people were loving it so shut up“ feel completely out of touch with reality, but oh well..). As far as other franchises are concerned, I really have no idea. Personally, I can't wait for a Simpsons one to finally prove MaRo's repetitive statement of the five main family members representing the five colors of Magic Other than that, ArkiThe7th's post sums up my thoughts nicely. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 29, 2022 20:04:19 GMT
foureyesisafish: That just leaves your answer before I can chime in with mine.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Apr 2, 2022 0:30:17 GMT
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foureyesisafish
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 388
Favorite Set: Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
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Post by foureyesisafish on Apr 2, 2022 5:09:21 GMT
Generally, why I think Secret Lair: Street Fighter worked better than either of the two previous UB secret lairs was how famous Street Fighter is, the fact we know we'll be getting versions of the cards in booster packs AND that the Street Fighter cards are like perfect encapsulations of their characters flavorfully (Ryu uses untap for the hadoken motion, Chun Li having multikicker, Guile being URW cuz he's American, etc). I felt like they really just went full ham here to the card's benefit.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Apr 2, 2022 18:34:46 GMT
Thank you, and welcome back.
Good design can carry a LOT of weight, but sometimes the creative can be a little too much for design to handle.
Ral: Mr. 27 lines of text on a majority of his designs is saying this? I'm shocked!
Quiet. Anyway, a part of me would love to see the Discworld novels translated to Magic, but there's also the fact that Sir PTerry has had numerous people come to him with that exact idea for various other card games, and their pitch has usually been along the lines of "Ok, so the Wizards and the Witches are in a war against each other..." No wonder he's consistently answered with "I don't think so."
You've all said everything else that needed to be said on the subject, so onto Question Four, from ArkiThe7th: For Neon Dynasty, I went into the set completely unspoiled until my first draft and I loved it. Do you try to stay completely unspoiled for new sets or not? Has there ever been a set you wish you could’ve played unspoiled? |
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) of any modern Magic blocks.
"When in doubt, do a common." 
), but I quickly wanted to respond to 
