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Post by hydraheadhunter on Oct 19, 2021 23:03:42 GMT
So, say I'm sad that nobody's bitting on the two planechase based games in The Contests and Games forum ( A plain plane game and planechase uncharted), and I decided I wanted to make more planechase cards and decided to start working on a set of planes and phenomenons... just like, hypothetically say I made 56 cards already. What kinds of effects would you like to see from such a set? What kinds of places would you like such a set to go? What kinds of new and exciting things would you want to be in the set: What would get you hyped for this diamond in the rough alternate format that I've for some reason decided is now my baby. |
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Ralphio
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Post by Ralphio on Oct 23, 2021 7:28:06 GMT
Planechase Commander is my absolute favorite format.
My ideas have crossed into the Universes Beyond territory, but...
A couple of years ago, I started to design cards based around video games and planes based around video game locations. I dubbed it:
GAMECHASE!
One failed hard drive and restart later, I have amassed 120 games (planes) and phenomenons (I was trying to come up with something more flavorful, but MSE2 only recognizes phenomenon to switch the template). I even had them printed to play with, and had a hell of a lot of fun with them. Major balancing issues arose, but for my first steps into design, I had a great time and learned a lot.
If you'd like, I'd be happy to share any of my ideas with you. 
As for Planechase within Magic's multiverse, I'd be happy with LITERALLY ANYTHING! Hasbro, do you hear us?! I'd love for campus planes from Strixhaven, planes with day/night centered themes, phenomenons that feed everyone with food tokens, introductions into Kaldheim's ten realms... ANYTHING! I can't get enough of Planechase, and would buy stacks of planes if WotC released them. OR, they should base their yearly commander precons around Planechase, and include all new planes and phenomenons with them! Now that I've typed that, it's all disappointment from here on, as I believe they've abandoned Planechase for good.
I'll join you. I'm in. Let's keep up the good fight.
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Post by hydraheadhunter on Oct 23, 2021 8:36:04 GMT
Great, I also started on a set. I'm about 190 cards effects in with 18 phenomenons (some of the plane don't have names and planes yet because I changed up my design method half way through). New mechanics-wise, I've so far added three super types to phenomenons, although I haven't fully fleshed them out. Ongoing Phenomenon take a book out of the archenemy format: When you encounter these phenomenon, you immediately planeswalk to a new plane without planeswalking away. They have effects and a condition to planeswalk: when you meet that effect you planeswalk away from the phenomenon. Inversion of Knowledge
Ongoing Phenomenon
(When you encounter Inversion of Knowledge, planeswalk without planeswalking away.)
Players play with their libraries upside-down and revealed (The top becomes the bottom and vis-versa.)
Whenever a player draws a card or planeswalks, put a knowledge counter on Inversion of Knowedge, then if there are ten or more knowledge counters on it, planeswalk away from it. |
Spatial Phenomonen work a lot like the canon phenomenon spatial merging. Wandering Plane
Spatial Phenomenon
When you encounter Planar Clash, enmesh two planes. (To enmesh two planes, reveal the top card of the planar deck until you reveal two plane cards. merge them then planeswalk to that plane. Put all other revealed cards on the bottom of the planar deck and shuffle the planar deck. Then shuffle the planar deck as you planeswalk away from this phenomenon.)
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If that was all spatial phenomenon could do, it wouldn't justify a sub-type, so a spatial phenomenon can have a plane sub-type (similar to tribal spells having creature subtypes), in which case, they will only enmesh planes with that type Entwined World Tree Branches
Spatial Phenomenon - Kaldheim
When you encounter Entwined World Tree Branches enmesh two Kaldheim planes. (To enmesh two planes, reveal the top card of the planar deck until you reveal two plane cards that share the Kaldheim type. Merge them then planeswalk to that plane. Put all other revealed cards on the bottom of the planar deck and shuffle the planar deck. Then shuffle the planar deck as you planeswalk away from this phenomenon.) |
There's a shuffle in the reminder text, in part so that if you reveal practically the entire planar deck resolving this effect the planar deck is still unpredictable at the end of the resolution. The shuffle is timed "as you planeswalk away," so that the phenomenon ends up on the bottom of the deck after the shuffle happens. It's timed this way because spatial phenomenon can be combined with ongoing phenomenons to create Ongoing Spatial Phenomenon. Conflux Erruption
Ongoing Spatial Phenomenon - Alara
When you encounter Conflux Erruption enmesh two Alara planes.
Whenever a player rolls chaos, they put an instability counter on this, then enmesh another Alara plane and trigger that plane’s chaos ability.
If a player would planeswalk, they instead put an instability counter on Conflux Erruption, then if there are three or more instability counters on it, they planeswalk then planeswalk away from this phenomenon. (Shuffle the planar library as you planeswalk away from this phenomenon.)
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Lastly, Incidental Phenomenon only occur when they are drawn from the planar deck under exactly the correct circumstances, and are otherwise ignored. Abundant AEtherpocket
Incidental Phenomenon
If fewer than three or more than five spells have been cast this turn, ignore this phenomenon. (Planeswalk away without triggering an encounter.)
When you encounter Abundant Ætherpocket, for each player, the next spell they would cast this turn may be cast as though it had flash and storm (then planeswalk away from this phenomenon.) |
The phenomenons selection in canon is more lackluster than the planes's selection, so these supertypes hopefully help open up the phenomenon design space. |
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Post by hydraheadhunter on Oct 23, 2021 8:52:54 GMT
I started the project looking at the canon planes of MtG and figuring out what kinds of effects would suit them. This got me to about 100 plane cards with 15 planes to go when I switched gears and started looking at top 1000 most teched commanders (using EDHrec as my source) to see what kinds of effects the types of decks people play would like and/or hate. I'm about half-way through the list of commanders with about 90 new plane effects (the catch here being the planes haven't been named or typed yet, so there's still work to do for them), so I figure I'll get to a set around 300 cards large before I need to go through and weed the uninteresting planes, and power tuning the set (which'll require playtesting...), then it's the process of art sourcing, although because plane chase cards aren't technically magic cards, I think I can cut corners a bit with official mtg art for some of the planes (especially using basic land art.)
And, I haven't even considered the possibility of planes and phenomenon based off of the MSEModern canon.
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Post by hydraheadhunter on Oct 23, 2021 8:59:13 GMT
Also, I'm not a fan of the canon planechase frames which are very inefficient in their use of card space because they've got room to spare being oversized. I really only noticed this problem when I started using the mini-cards because I needed the space for double-sided cards to use for daybound nightbound innistrad planes (which need their own frame anyway to visually signify the different sides...
I'm just piling work on this project because I hate myself aren't I...
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Ralphio
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Post by Ralphio on Nov 1, 2021 2:57:30 GMT
I love the idea of ongoing phenomenon that go away after conditions are met, like the ongoing schemes in archenemy.
I'm pretty sure all phenomenon are symmetrical, in that everyone gets hit with the same affects. What are your thoughts on phenomenon that only affect the player who draw it? They could be ongoing as well until a certain condition is met. Negatives could give you a way to get out of it, and bonuses would give the options to your opponents (curses and blessings, perhaps?). I believe they would have to be small, as to not completely screw one person over or give someone a gigantic advantage. If you have bonuses, you'd have to have hindrances, otherwise people would be burning through the planar deck to get all the upgrades.
Enmesh sounds fun. The only thing I would be worried about is overwhelming the board with complexity and memory issues.
Conditional phenomenon I am not a fan of. Maybe it does an affect, but if certain conditions are met, it does an alternate affect instead?
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Post by hydraheadhunter on Nov 3, 2021 17:09:37 GMT
I love the idea of ongoing phenomenon that go away after conditions are met, like the ongoing schemes in archenemy. That's where I got the idea from. I think the logic behind not doing it in the canon was because planes are basically ongoing phenomenon with the universal condition, "When you roll planeswalk, planeswalk away from this phenomenon," but opening up that end condition to a more diverse set of walk-away condition'll have some interesting game design opprotunities. I agree with you in theory that hinderence cards would be a good thing to include in the planar deck; but, the problem that is that the planar deck isn't the sum whole of the planar canon, but an experience of ~20-40 cards the combination of each player's individual deck, and setting aside trolls and people that play zo-zu, no one's going to put an effect that would hurt them in the deck, so the deck building aspect hurts the ability of the game designer to balance the set in that way. Yeah, I've set a soft limit on most enmesh effects so that you can't enmesh too many planes at the same time, but overall, it shouldn't be too terible to track, since most planes are basically enchantments of variable complexity. Based on this feedback, I've changed the concept from a boolean to an int switch.  | Abundant Ætherpocket
Incidental Phenomenon
When you encounter Abundant Ætherpocket, depending on how many spells have been cast this turn as you encounter it, do the following (then planeswalk away from this phenomenon.)
1-2 The next spell you cast this turn gains storm. (You may choose new targets for the copies)
3-4 The next spell each player casts this turn may be cast as though it had flash and gains storm.
5+ Spells cast this turn may be cast as though they had flash. They gain storm. Untap all lands and
each player draws until they have seven or more cards in hand.
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There's still the possibility of ignoring the phenomenon when it's on zero, but now it typically does things and depending on the game state, it does things at a different intensity. |
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Ralphio
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Post by Ralphio on Apr 23, 2022 20:24:47 GMT
Sorry I disappeared for so long! Long story short, I was closing on buying a house and moving in last November, and some things just fell by the way side.
Now back to more important things.
Does this work the way I want it to? The actual card "You Meet in a Tavern" I actually think better represents its name flavor wise, but I can fix that later, I just wanted a dungeon venturing phenomenon.
And I like this version of Incidental Phenomenon much better, where there's more likely a chance that one of the effects will happen.
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