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Post by fluffydeathbringer on Nov 12, 2018 19:15:26 GMT
aaaaw snaaaap
scifi ain't usually my bag but I'm looking forward to seeing how you do this thing
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 12, 2018 20:00:05 GMT
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Post by Daij_Djan on Nov 12, 2018 20:18:23 GMT
So this finally is your non-green set? Looks awesome at first glimpse, can't wait to see more
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Post by fluffydeathbringer on Nov 12, 2018 20:30:48 GMT
A+ presentation for what would ordinarily be an unexciting part of the set
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 12, 2018 22:12:45 GMT
fluffydeathbringer thank you! I know sci-fi is a dealbreaker for a lot of people, and I honestly feel the same to some extent, though I felt that since LSC has no green cards there's probably no better place for a sci-fi setting in an MTG set. Though the probably more satisfying Doylist explanation is A) lots of unused art and B) lets me pull nonsense like that brochure Daij_Djan : Yep, glad you like the look of it ^^ I guess now it's time to look through Pyramids of Atuum for the first time (and the second set, when it arrives xd)
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 13, 2018 20:00:11 GMT
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Post by fluffydeathbringer on Nov 13, 2018 22:41:59 GMT
- the kind of scifi that has fantasy on the fringes, creeping in from outside the walls, is interesting to me and it'll be neat to see how that manifests further - mysterious disappearance's benefit being so fringe when compared to the rest of the cycle throws me off - futuristic's a bit broader than historic so balancing it needs to take that into account. you've already considered this probably but I think it bears mentioning for good measure
- automatous crowdpleaser's second color being white of all colors is a bit off to me, but I guess since you can't use green, white's the closest for feeling right for this kind of condition - just fucking inject defiant peacekeeper into my filthy RW weenie loving veins
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 14, 2018 20:03:55 GMT
In Scar City, there is no such thing as destiny. Nobody is tied to any particular path in life; the unique circumstances of its residents' birth means that everybody starts from the same position. The only difference in people, then, is the beliefs they hold and the choices they make. With many warring ideologies and propoganda from various parties, there's no telling where any individual will wind up in life. The route that they commit to in Living in Scar City is represented by the mechanic "contract". Living in Scar City is a gold set, but it has no gold cards at common. In their place, the contract mechanic allows you to build your own gold card without the risk of finding yourself unable to play it due to mana constraints. You can think of contract cards as being split between a monocolor card and gold card: Steelwing Cadet can be either a 2/2 for or a 2/2 flyer for . While contract cards shine in their respective factions, they can be used to fill curves in other decks in a pinch. Contract cards have a unique frame with shows you which color(s) it cares about. Using Steelwing Cadet as an example, the card is white (particularly towards the top, where the mana cost is) indicating that it requires only white to cast and as such could go into any white deck. The blue hybrid towards the bottom shows that the rules text cares about the card being blue, i.e. it wants to be cast with blue mana, though it doesn't have to be. Note that the frame is only an indicator: the card isn't blue unless it becomes blue via contract or any other color changing ability, and contract will cause any color spent on it to be gained as a color. For example, if you cast Steelwing Cadet for , it will enter the battlefield as a red and white creature, even though it being red makes no difference to it. Similarly, the abilities that care about a contract card's color don't care how it gains the color. 99% of the time, it'll be through its contract ability, but other color-changing effects can allow you to cheat this. For instance, playing Mysterious Disappearance on Steelwing Cadet will turn on its flying ability even if wasn't spent to cast it. Artifact creatures, being programmable constructs that can carry out any task a human could, make good use of contract. Many of the more advanced models are colored to begin with, and may use contract to choose a faction of their own free will. These ones are simpler, though, and do not care which specific color(s) they are used by. You might think that keeping track of these changing colors in game might be tough. And you would be right. You could use dice or counters to indicate a color change, and Living in Scar City booster packs have a chance to contain a token with perforated counters for this purpose. If you're running a two-color deck then you'll usually only need one type of counter to mean "contracted", but otherwise you might need to use different counters to represent different colors. Finally, here's a full cycle of common fixing artifacts you can expect to find. Functionally, they're identical to Cluestones, except that if you cast them for both of their colors (which is particularly common when you topdeck them) you get an extra card when cash them in. Yes, they're strictly better Cluestones. I don't care {Mechanical Notes} Contract
Contract is a static ability that appears on artifacts and creatures. "Contract" means "This permanent is all colors of mana spent to cast it in addition to its other colors." - Cards with contract use frames that have a partial gradient towards a specific color or colors. The bottom part of the card features a color or colors that the card cares about in some way, but does not innately affect the color of the card itself. This coloration is intended to aid deck building and gameplay.
- Contract applies immediately upon entering the battlefield. If Militia Defector is cast for , it will enter the battlefield as a red and white creature, and trigger any abilities that trigger upon a red creature entering the battlefield or even abilities that trigger upon a creature with haste entering the battlefield.
- Unlike devoid, contract is not a characteristic-defining ability, and as such only functions on the battlefield. It has no effect while on the stack, and its effects are forgotten if a card with contract leaves the battlefield.
- Contract does not affect a card's color identity. This means that you can use Militia Defector in your Odric, Master Tactician deck, if you really want to.
- All cards with contract have also have at least one ability that cares about the card being a color that the card does not have innately. Any color changing effect can trigger or turn on this ability, not just contract.
- If a card loses contract, the additional colors will still be gained. This is because effects that change an object's color (like the one created by contract) are considered before the object loses contract.
- If a card with contract enters the battlefield and it wasn't cast, contract has no effect.
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Post by Neottolemo on Nov 15, 2018 12:20:51 GMT
- Lovely brochure - Initially wasn't on board with contract but the counter idea is really smart and some of these uses, like the Joyrider, the Gorger, and the Prismatic Escort, are pretty clever, so now I feel more convinced - Sanvere Librarian is a cool card but looks like that idiot Freud which I suppose is a bonus - Side-eyeing Dropkick a bit but I suppose that since all nonred colours can boost toughness it should be fine. If it limited the toughness boost to attacking multicolored creatures it'd feel R-er, but that's probably not the point and it'd force the flavour text to be shorter - Everything looks pretty neat so far
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 15, 2018 20:00:18 GMT
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Post by korakhos on Nov 15, 2018 21:45:38 GMT
I gotta say I really love the way you're spoiling this set, it really draws you into the world! (also took me a while to interpret the code since I thought you were using imgur )
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Post by ThatDamnPipsqueak on Nov 16, 2018 2:54:47 GMT
Seconded. This is one of the first spoiler threads that I've been actively following that seems worth the effort.
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 16, 2018 20:00:42 GMT
As the people of Scar City grow, if they don't become a mindless Dreamer or a drone of Sanvere, they'll usually settle into one of its divisive circles: a rebel of the Jagenni; a peacekeeper of the Ministry; a drone of Sanvere; and so on. But even within these distinct factions viewpoints differ, with each of their their members each falling somewhere on a spectrum of one ideological extreme to another. Guided as they are by these divergent and yet related outlooks, the motives and exploits of Scar City's six factions can change on a dime — or, you could say, on a whim. What is this?? What are we looking at?? Let's break this down. "Whim" is a new subtype that appears exclusively on two-color instants and sorceries, and represents a new type of spell that falls somewhere between split cards and modal cards. (It's also a new template, adapted from Pichoro's Augment template. I think.) Each Whim has two, or sometimes three, different modes which each have their own mana cost. When you cast a Whim, you first pick one of its modes, then choose targets for the mode if there are any, and finally pay the appropriate cost. You can only choose one mode: you can't fuse the two by paying . Speaking of absurd mana payment, let's see what's going on with these mixed hybrid costs. You can think of Jagenni Dissonance as costing , with the outcome changing depending on which color of mana you pay more of. If you pay more than , i.e. or , then you get the peaceful outcome. If you pay more than , i.e. or , then you get the violent outcome. Each Whim card follows this pattern, with the same converted mana cost on each of its modes and with the only different being the colors, so you can always cast a Whim for any combination of its two colors. You might notice that for Whims with an even converted mana cost that it's possible to pay an equal amount of mana for both colors. Well spotted! Whims with even CMC have three modes to choose from. This sounds somewhat familiar. Aside from this cycle, you can expect one uncommon and one rare Whim for each color, making 18 Whims total. Here are a few more cards to finish with, including the previously spoiled Fatal Sting: {Mechanical Notes} WhimSome instants and sorceries have the subtype “Whim". Each Whim card has a nonstandard frame with a number of a different spell abilities each with their own casting cost, and no standard casting cost. - Whim cards have a striated text box and two or three separate sections containing a casting cost and spell ability. Each of these sections is a "mode".
- Whim cards have no single mana cost. If an effect would refer to a Whim's mana cost, that card's owner chooses one of its modes' mana costs. If that Whim is a spell on the stack, it refers to the mana cost corresponding the its chosen mode.
- Each mana cost on a Whim card has the same converted mana cost. A Whim's converted mana cost is equal to the converted mana cost of each of its modes. This is distinct from split cards, where the converted mana cost is equal to the sum of the converted mana cost of each half.
- The colors of a Whim card are those of all of its mana costs combined. This is true even on the stack. For example, if you cast Drop a Line for its mode in a mono-blue deck, it's still a white and blue spell.
- The controller of a Whim spell chooses the mode as part of casting that spell. Exactly one mode must be chosen. If a mode would be illegal (due to an inability to choose legal targets, for example), that mode can’t be chosen.
- If a mode of a Whim spell targets one or more targets, its controller will need to choose those targets only if they chose that mode. Otherwise, the spell is treated as though it did not have those targets.
- Whim spells may have different targeting requirements for each mode. Changing a Whim spell’s target can’t change its mode. A copy of a Whim spell copies the mode chosen for it. The controller of the copy can’t choose a different mode.
- After legal targets have been chosen, the cost of a Whim spell is determined using the casting cost for the chosen mode. Effects that increase or reduce mana costs apply as normal. Alternative costs can still be paid to cast that spell.
- If a player casts a Whim spell without paying its mana cost, that player may choose any of its legal modes freely.
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 16, 2018 21:35:57 GMT
Glad to see so many people enjoying the set! 💖 The uh unconventional spoilers took some time to make, but were a lot more fun to make than just writing out story and/or world details, and seem to be much more fun to read as well. I only had the brochure initially, but I'll see if I can make some more spoilers in a similar vein to split up the upcoming mechanics posts. Now to answer some specific points: - mysterious disappearance's benefit being so fringe when compared to the rest of the cycle throws me off This is fair, but it was the best I could come up with; it turns out that making a cycle out of uniquely colorshifted 1 mana common green auras is somewhat limiting and I wouldn't recommend it - Side-eyeing Dropkick a bit but I suppose that since all nonred colours can boost toughness it should be fine. If it limited the toughness boost to attacking multicolored creatures it'd feel R-er, but that's probably not the point and it'd force the flavour text to be shorter I'll be honest, this was pretty much an oversight — I'd planned to move green combat tricks / fight spells to red, of course, but I only thought that red pumping toughness was rare, not virtually unheard of. I won't be changing cards that I've already posted but I enjoy the discussion, and that's definitely the change I would've made. imgur kept turning all my big pngs into jpgs with no transparency
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dietcolafangirla
0/0 Germ
Karlov Family Reunion Ravnica Allegiance 2019 Hype Train
Posts: 13
Favorite Card: Gift of Orzhova
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Black
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Post by dietcolafangirla on Nov 17, 2018 21:52:49 GMT
Greetings MSE, I'm happy to tonight announce a special, individual card reveal for the Living in Scar City set, currently previewing. Living in Scar City is a fantastic top down worldbuild, and I love the way the futuristic artsyle manages, unexpectedly even, to fit seamlessly within the magic border. Without further ado, Blighted Winds is a powerful innocent blood type effect that can be situationally one sided in the right deck. The flavour is tight and hammers home the deep, deep trouble going on in some of the most pitiable districts of Scar City. Black being the colour of choking pollution and toxic industry has always appealed to me, and those smoke stacks in the distance illustrate that perfectly.
I also enjoy how the art is very reminiscent of a land. Speaking of which, this would play very well with any sac and fetch lands.
Oh, and Sanvere Solutions totally own the media anyway.
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impspiritguide
2/2 Zombie
Favorite Color: Brown
Posts: 129
Set Hub: http://magicseteditor.boards.net/thread/256/pokemon-thread
Formerly Known As: Imp Elemental Spirit Guide
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Post by impspiritguide on Nov 18, 2018 1:09:01 GMT
I really like your rollout.
I like the Contract mechanic and appreciate that you thought about color markers (in the old school days this wouldn't have even phased most of us as we were used to having counters of various types). I really reminds me of Jeweled Amulet for some reason.
I like the Whim sub-type mechanic you are proposing (it feels better than the split cards and don't even get me started on the reversable cards that are supposed to be used in a randomly shuffled deck...), I do have some questions with some posible constructive feedback on them though.
Will the CMC of the different modes of a whim always be equal or will there be times when different modes have different CMC's (something like one mode being a board wipe and the other mode only being a targeted destruction necessitating different overall costs).
When you state the mechanics it isn't clear to me but it appears that you state that the CMC will be the cost paid but the color of the card will include every color possible in every mode is this correct.
Let me know it is possible that a few simple tweeks could help streamline the mechanic rules (simpler is always better).
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 18, 2018 20:00:27 GMT
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Post by fluffydeathbringer on Nov 18, 2018 22:28:49 GMT
these people write on a forum with perfect punctuation and capitalization, immershun broken
lethe's cool, presentation is once again very cool, the implication that the sansuit is sapient enough to be picky about who it gets worn by is weird
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 19, 2018 0:24:12 GMT
impspiritguide : Thanks for the kind words! I consider the strict rules for Whim to be different for the guidelines that I used in Living in Scar City. e.g. the color of a Whim card will always be the total of all colors of its mana costs (this is consistent with split cards); however all LSC Whims are exactly two colors, i.e. they have two different colors of mana across all their costs, while this need not be the case for any potential Whims outside of this set. For CMC on the other hand, all LSC Whims have the same CMC on each mode, but I hadn't considered how a Whim with different CMCs for its modes could work when I built the template so it's not really equipped to handle it. I strictly defined all Whims to have the same CMC on each mode for this reason (and so it makes sense for the CMC of the card to be equal to this value too) I imagine a card like the hypothetical one you described would be better suited to the original augment template. The mechanical notes I wrote are certainly not perfect, I just pieced them together from existing rules to answer any questions people might have. Any suggests from anybody familiar with comp rules wholly welcome. fluffydeathbringer : I honestly considered different typing styles but then remembered I was trying to reduce the number of homestuck allusionsAs for the Sansuit sapience thing, that is at least somewhat true for most Contract artifacts, but yeah that's not my proudest FT
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impspiritguide
2/2 Zombie
Favorite Color: Brown
Posts: 129
Set Hub: http://magicseteditor.boards.net/thread/256/pokemon-thread
Formerly Known As: Imp Elemental Spirit Guide
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Post by impspiritguide on Nov 19, 2018 3:43:02 GMT
Looking at Pichoro's Augment template it appears you might have already altered it some for this (I couldn't get the cost box fields to expand and looking at the "style" coding they are hard coded anyways). My reply is based upon this assumption, if not I can help you with the template coding (it isn't really that difficult for this mod).
Based upon the mechanics you are suggesting then changing the whim card face to look like shown below would simplify the rule mechanics necessary to explain. It is also a much simpler card face to understand for those of us who haven't seen an augment before (personally removing the casting cost from the upper right is poor juju anyways).
To alter the augment template into a whim template do the following. If you haven't already done so I'd recommend making your modified augment template its own "Whim" template that will make it easier to share for use with your set.
- Copy the contents of casting cost 2 to some sort of holding location (I use a separate open file)
- Rename casting cost: to casting cost 2:
- Rename the original casting cost 2: to casting cost:
- Overwrite the contents of the new casting cost: field to what is shown below.
- Overwrite the appropriate contents of the name: field
- Below in the extra card fields enter the extra card field for :casting cost 4 shown below
- Link the visibility and width for the cost box: field to casting_cost_2
- Copy the contents you copied to the holding location in as a field under cost box 3:, rename it to casting cost 4:
extra card field: type: text name: casting cost 4 save value: false script: mana_filter(value) description: The 4th casting cost of the card
casting cost: right: 346 top: 29 width: { max(30, card_style.casting_cost.content_width) + 5 } height: 23 alignment: middle right font: name: MPlantin size: 15 symbol font: name: magic-mana-large size: 15 alignment: middle right always symbol: true z index: 2 padding top: 0
name: right: { 341 - card_style.casting_cost.content_width }
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 19, 2018 20:02:37 GMT
Despite Sanvere's insistent claims that anybody can become anything, most of the people living in Scar City are actually docile. Either they believe their quiet lives are fulfilling — having come to that conclusion naturally or having had it forced upon them by Sanvere — or they understand how dire their situation is, but lack the will or ability to change it. But there are also those who have joined hands in defiance of their corporate overlord, gradually increasing their numbers and taking back their freedom. You've already met Jagen himself, so now it's time to meet all those fellow citizens inspired by him to take up arms. Instigate is a mechanic, the colors of turning sideways. With small creatures to get the fight started, such as Jagenni Hooligan, Defiant Peacekeeper, and the Instigator himself, the Jagenni inspire neutral parties with a display of bravery and rebelliousness. The more you attack, the easier you can bring in more attackers, and your ragtag group of rebels quickly grows into a serious force to be reckoned with. You can drop your instigated creatures post-combat at a reduced rate, but Angel of the Masses gives you more options as it's instant speed — you can cast it mid-combat, before or after blockers are declared if you like, to immediately turn the battle in your favour. Instigate also appears on instants and sorceries, giving you more options both during and after combat.
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Post by ThatDamnPipsqueak on Nov 20, 2018 1:11:13 GMT
I'm honestly impressed so far how little I miss green. This world feels mechanically and flavorfully rich while missing an entire color. Which is just shocking.
Instigate looks really solid. How much token gen is there in the set? It seems like lots of rewards for going wide, I'm only uncertain about whether or not it'll be easy to do so.
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 20, 2018 15:56:43 GMT
impspiritguide: This is actually what I started with (well actually I started off with a hybrid cost in the corner and like " > " but that was a special kind of nightmare) I got feedback along the process of making the template and I haven't really encountered any confusion, aside from people asking if the spells could be fused; I worry that adding an additional redundant cost could actually lead to more confusion, since I'm not really sure how both costs are supposed to work together ruleswise. I forgot to mention in the initial post but I'll be hosting the template itself on my set hub when it's finished, probably after this thread is over. For now you can check it out here if you like, though it's extremely hacky since I was learning templating on the fly so uh apologies in advance ThatDamnPipsqueak: Thank you! Designing a setting that thrives in spite of 's absence was my primary goal, so I'm really glad that it seems to be succeeding in that regard. For token making, there's the delicious candy cane Sanguine Whim from earlier, though that's hardly conventional. The common token generators are the rather similar Arm the Masses and United We Rise, which I had no spoiler plan for so I'll go ahead and add them to the gallery along with tonight's update. I like Instigate a lot but it's a pretty snowbally mechanic, so I was worried about including a straight up Raise the Alarm or something similar.
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 20, 2018 20:00:26 GMT
By now, you're probably very familiar with the name Sanvere. You can't go far in Scar City without hearing the name, yet most people go their whole lives without ever meeting one of its workforce. As the city's creator and maintainer, Sanvere Solutions is an uncontested god: omnipresent and yet unseen; omnipotent and yet covert. The source of Sanvere's strength is knowledge — not just what they know, but what their detractors don't. Being the Jagenni's sworn enemy, the mechanic is the very antithesis of " style="max-width:100%;"] 's sheer aggression. Like an advanced scry surveil, scrutinize gives you insight into both your and opponents' next moves, plus the power to pluck out unfavourable outcomes. Well, it's more like scry plus fateseal, into the graveyard. The difference is th— Ok, it's kind of like fateseal. (Though unlike fateseal and other scry-like keywords, scrutinize has no number attached to it and only looks at the top card of each library, meaning that it can't put cards back in any order.) The difference is that you don't exactly get to scry surveil each player's library independently; you have to put ALL of the cards back, or ALL of them into their owner's graveyards. While there will be many cases where this is trivial (You have a bad card coming up and your opponent has a good one, or vice versa) there will also be situations where you're forced to choose between helping out yourself or screwing over your opponent. Luckily, the context of many scrutinize cards can help you make this decision. Each of these oddly named cards changes how you'll want to use scrutinize. As a pure cantrip, Muse is generally going to prioritise your own draws, and Mind Game is promising you the best card in deck, so you're pretty unlikely to want to scrutinize down in this case — though there might be cases where you want to Entomb something, and, as with all scrutinize cards, there's always the possibility that you reveal something sinister on top of your opponent's library that desperately needs dealing with. Spin into Myth is generally considered to be a color pie break, but is quite a bit more comfortable about permanent solutions to spells than permanent solutions to creatures. If you scrutinize down with Tampered Scene, you get a Dissolve Sinister Sabotage, but you get a Memory Leak if you scrutinize up. Again, the decision will likely be swayed by what card you find on top of your own library. Finally, here we have: a card that doesn't have scrutinize, but plays nice with the scrutinize deck; a card that has scrutinize, but plays terribly with the scrutinize deck; and a familiar looking rare. Remember, Sanvere is watching you. {Mechanical Notes} ScrutinizeScrutinize is a keyword action. To "scrutinize" means to look at the top card of each player's library, then you may put all of those cards into of their owners' graveyards. - When you scrutinize, you must put all of the cards you look at either into their owners' graveyards or back on top of their owners' libraries. You can't put one or more of those cards into their owners' graveyards and one or more back on top of their owners' libraries.
- You perform the actions stated on a card in sequence. For some spells and abilities, you'll scrutinize last. For others, you'll scrutinize and then perform other actions.
- Some spells that instruct you to scrutinize require targets. You can't cast a spell without choosing legal targets. If all of those targets become illegal, the spell doesn't resolve and you won't scrutinize.
- One card (Sanvere Agent) cares about whenever you scrutinize. It doesn't matter whether or not you put the cards into their owners' graveyards while scrutinizing; its ability will still trigger. Its ability goes on the stack after you've finished scrutinizing, meaning you'll usually draw either the card you just looked at or the one underneath.
- If one or more players have no card in their libraries, those players will be skipped. If all players have no cards in their libraries, nothing happens. Sanvere Agent's ability still triggers.
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impspiritguide
2/2 Zombie
Favorite Color: Brown
Posts: 129
Set Hub: http://magicseteditor.boards.net/thread/256/pokemon-thread
Formerly Known As: Imp Elemental Spirit Guide
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Post by impspiritguide on Nov 20, 2018 21:24:30 GMT
Before I begin this please understand that if a current judge or someone corrects me then go with what they say. At one time I was a very good rules lawyer but I no longer play competitively or run tournaments and haven't for a number of years so my knowledge is dated and may be incorrect. That said the common misconceptions and rules of the game haven't changed. Now that I know that the augment template is for a user defined card type then I will point out that this style would also need significant rule changes to be valid as well. Please understand, I'm not trying to pick on you and ultimately I want to help out, at it's core I don't want to change what the whim's actually do, that is your position as the artist, consider me the editor trying to get all of the punctuation in the right places. Well to start with Whim cards as you have presented them can't be cast without major rules changes specific to those cards. {Comprehensive Rule 202}Comprehensive Rules 202. Mana Cost 202.1. A card’s mana cost is indicated by mana symbols near the top of the card. (See rule 107.4.) On most cards, these symbols are printed in the upper right corner. Some cards from the Future Sight set have alternate frames in which the mana symbols appear to the left of the illustration. 202.1a The mana cost of an object represents what a player must spend from their mana pool to cast that card. Unless an object’s mana cost includes Phyrexian mana symbols (see rule 107.4f), paying that mana cost requires matching the type of any colored or colorless mana symbols as well as paying the generic mana indicated in the cost. 202.1b Some objects have no mana cost. This normally includes all land cards, any other cards that have no mana symbols where their mana cost would appear, tokens (unless the effect that creates them specifies otherwise), and nontraditional Magic cards. Having no mana cost represents an unpayable cost (see rule 117.6). Note that lands are played without paying any costs (see rule 305, “Lands”).
Based upon these rules any card that is created either needs a major modification to the comprehensive rules or needs to have another method to cast that card except by casting it from your hand. Example: Ancestral Vision. Most good player will see that there is no casting cost on your cards and work on this assumption. Furthermore to create another method by which Whim's can be cast would have other inherent problems with the larger card pool (Cascade as just a top of the head example). This is why after really liking your contract keyword it took me a long time to figure out what the whim's were supposed to do (I kept looking for the methodology of casting them). Once I figured them out I like them (the concept of gold cards that are more one color than another is awesome). So with this understanding out of the way let's look at what you are trying to create. In effect it is the following card. Forgive me for any wording errors (I still think about putting things into play rather than on the battlefield). Admittedly this version is extremely clunky (which is why the rules modality in Pichoro's Augment template is so nice visually). But the card works fine from a rules standpoint without any rules changes except for the 9th Mechanic. I'll go through your mechanics as you listed them with the comprehensive rules appropriate to show this. {Applicable kinotherapy Mechanics and Comprehensive Rules} 1: Whim cards have a striated text box and two or three separate sections containing the casting cost and spell ability. Each of these sections is a "mode".This mechanic is important but doesn't apply to this example. 2: Whim cards have no single mana cost. If an effect would refer to a Whim's mana cost, that card's owner chooses one of its modes' mana costs. If that Whim is a spell on the stack, it refers to the mana cost corresponding to its chosen mode.3: Each mana cost on a Whim card has the same converted mana cost. A Whim's converted mana cost is equal to the converted mana cost of each of its modes. This is distinct from split cards, where the converted mana cost is equal to the sum of the converted mana cost of each half.4: The colors of a Whim card are those of all of its mana costs combined. This is true even on the stack.I have crossed out any references to split cards, Whim's are not split cards even if the split cards were your inspiration, they are modal and any references to split cards will only serve to confuse. Additionally if you continue with your original concept then you need to reword Mechanic 3: because as written it intends that the converted mana cost is equal to the additive total of all mana costs. Meaning in the case of Mercurial Whim it's CMC is 6 or + + . This is the standard meaning of equal to the converted mana cost of each of its modes. Personally I would have written it as "The converted mana cost of a Whim card is equal to the largest converted mana cost of any of its modes." 202.2d An object with one or more hybrid mana symbols and/or Phyrexian mana symbols in its mana cost is all of the colors of those mana symbols, in addition to any other colors the object might be. (Most cards with hybrid mana symbols in their mana costs are printed in a two-tone frame. See rule 107.4e.) Given that the whim's always have the same mana cost regardless of mode this allows us to ignore mechanic 2: as all references to casting cost will refer to the top of the card, this is similarly true with mechanic 3:. Comphrehensive rule 202.2d shows that mechanic 4: is also already covered. 5: The controller of a Whim spell chooses the mode as part of casting that spell. Exactly one mode must be chosen. If a mode would be illegal (due to an inability to choose legal targets, for example), that mode can't be chosen)6: If a mode of a Whim spell targets one or more targets, its controller will need to choose those targets only if they chose that mode. Otherwise, the spell is treated as though it did not have those targets.{Comprehensive Rule 601.2}601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell includes proposal of the spell (rules 601.2a–d) and determination and payment of costs (rules 601.2f–h). To cast a spell, a player follows the steps listed below, in order. A player must be legally allowed to cast the spell to begin this process (see rule 601.3). If, at any point during the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed (see rule 721, “Handling Illegal Actions”). 601.2a To propose the casting of a spell, a player first moves that card (or that copy of a card) from where it is to the stack. It becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has all the characteristics of the card (or the copy of a card) associated with it, and that player becomes its controller. The spell remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, or an effect moves it elsewhere. 601.2b If the spell is modal, the player announces the mode choice (see rule 700.2). If the player wishes to splice any cards onto the spell (see rule 702.46), they reveal those cards in their hand. If the spell has alternative or additional costs that will be paid as it’s being cast such as buyback or kicker costs (see rules 117.8 and 117.9), the player announces their intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 601.2f). A player can’t apply two alternative methods of casting or two alternative costs to a single spell. If the spell has a variable cost that will be paid as it’s being cast (such as an in its mana cost; see rule 107.3), the player announces the value of that variable. If the value of that variable is defined in the text of the spell by a choice that player would make later in the announcement or resolution of the spell, that player makes that choice at this time instead of that later time. If a cost that will be paid as the spell is being cast includes hybrid mana symbols, the player announces the nonhybrid equivalent cost they intend to pay. If a cost that will be paid as the spell is being cast includes Phyrexian mana symbols, the player announces whether they intend to pay 2 life or the corresponding colored mana cost for each of those symbols. Previously made choices (such as choosing to cast a spell with flashback from a graveyard or choosing to cast a creature with morph face down) may restrict the player’s options when making these choices. 601.2c The player announces their choice of an appropriate object or player for each target the spell requires. A spell may require some targets only if an alternative or additional cost (such as a kicker cost) or a particular mode was chosen for it; otherwise, the spell is cast as though it did not require those targets. Similarly, a spell may require alternative targets only if an alternative or additional cost was chosen for it. If the spell has a variable number of targets, the player announces how many targets they will choose before they announce those targets. In some cases, the number of targets will be defined by the spell’s text. Once the number of targets the spell has is determined, that number doesn’t change, even if the information used to determine the number of targets does. The same target can’t be chosen multiple times for any one instance of the word “target” on the spell. However, if the spell uses the word “target” in multiple places, the same object or player can be chosen once for each instance of the word “target” (as long as it fits the targeting criteria). If any effects say that an object or player must be chosen as a target, the player chooses targets so that they obey the maximum possible number of such effects without violating any rules or effects that say that an object or player can’t be chosen as a target. The chosen objects and/or players each become a target of that spell. (Any abilities that trigger when those objects and/or players become the target of a spell trigger at this point; they’ll wait to be put on the stack until the spell has finished being cast.) 601.2d If the spell requires the player to divide or distribute an effect (such as damage or counters) among one or more targets, the player announces the division. Each of these targets must receive at least one of whatever is being divided. 601.2e The game checks to see if the proposed spell can legally be cast. If the proposed spell is illegal, the game returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed (see rule 721, “Handling Illegal Actions”). Your wording of mechanic 5: is poor (as written it conflicts with the basic rules of the game inherent in casting a spell). But if I intuit what you meant then the comprehensive rules above cover casting of the spell already and don't need re-iterated. It basically means that in order to cast a whim you must both be capable of paying the appropriate modal cost and choosing the targets appropriate for that mode. Given the circular nature of making this choices inherent in the game this is covered by the rules. Mechanic 6: is similarly covered by these rules that are basic to the game. 7: Whim spells may have different targeting requirements for each mode. Changing a Whim spell's target can't change its mode. A copy of a Whim spell copies the mode chosen for it. The controller of the copy can't choose a different mode.114.8. Modal spells and abilities may have different targeting requirements for each mode. An effect that allows a player to change the target(s) of a modal spell or ability, or to choose new targets for a modal spell or ability, doesn’t allow that player to change its mode. (See rule 700.2.) 700.2g A copy of a modal spell or ability copies the mode(s) chosen for it. The controller of the copy can’t choose a different mode. (See rule 706.10.) Mechanic 7: is covered by comprehensive rule 114.8 and 700.2g. 8: After legal targets have been chosen, the cost of a Whim spell is determined using the casting cost for the chosen mode. Effects that increase or reduce mana costs apply as normal. Alternative costs can still be paid to cast that spell.Mechanic 8: is covered by comprehensive rule 601.2 above. This only leaves mechanic 9: to contend with given the example above. Given the comprehensive rules the ability to choose freely is covered by comprehensive rules 601.2 as well as comprehensive rule 700.2, but given the way that the mode is chosen for your whims it makes choosing one of the other modes impossible should the mana cost be reduced. Therefore we must keep mechanic 9: 9: If a player casts a Whim spell without paying its mana cost, that player may choose any of its legal modes freely.Now that we've established that adding the casting cost to the top of the card means that the cards actually work using the comprehensive rules then the next thing is to streamline the visual design and add the mechanics necessary to allow them to work within the comprehensive rules. To that end if you take Mercurial Whim and redesign it as follows (by simply adding the casting cost into the appropriate location), as shown below. Then the only thing you need to say about this design is the following. Whim: Whim cards have a striated text box and two or three separate sections containing the modes of the spell as covered under comprehensive rule 700.2. The casting cost requirement for the modes is on the left side of the text box and represent the casting cost already paid for the spell. The respective spell ability for the modes is on the right. A player may only choose one of the modes on a whim card. If a player casts a Whim spell without paying its mana cost, that player may choose any of its legal modes freely separate from the mana cost requirements. as well as adding the following comprehensive rules. {EDIT - Another Option} Personally the following makes more sense to me but I can see where it might confuse most. It has the added bonus of not needing any addition to the comprehensive rules though. In fact it doesn't even need a subtype as it is only part of a cycle not a new mechanic.
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 21, 2018 20:00:28 GMT
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Post by fluffydeathbringer on Nov 21, 2018 22:09:37 GMT
- is writer!Kagara the same as card!Kagara, and if so, why is she talking about herself in third person - card!Kagara's neat and makes me want to build - I like that Lethe's getting more tied up to Livinginscarcityworld's intrigue - writer!Kagara's gonna get chewed up and spit out for being the (probably sole) good guy minister aren't they
- interested to know what an Anachronist is gonna turn out to be. my guess: magic user - Glimpse in the Static's also neat - "yeah we've got mass murderer terrorists but eh, we don't need to devote resources to that, at least they're not saying we suck like those Jagenni fucks" has depressingly real energy
- that very last line has a good intrigue punch
overall it blows me mind that you're not only investing this much effort into the presentation, but challenging yourself by making it so varied in style. no issues with this writing in and of itself, either.
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 22, 2018 17:56:55 GMT
impspiritguide: I appreciate the interest and assistance but this is pretty much where I started before changing them to the current form. The "if you spent" version was closer to my original intent but had a myriad of issues, such as being unintuitive and breaking with payment modifications (which the additional rules account for partially, but still don't take into account alternative costs or mana washing.) I moved to the split style after realising that what I wanted was closer to splits than modal spells. After talking it over with a few people (primarily cajun and cyberchronometer) I feel it would be better to actually double down on the split card aspect. I used the term "mode" in my description, which I now think was a mistake since they would be better described as "faces". You seemed put off by there being no mana cost, but there are multiple mana costs so they shouldn't be uncastable. All the rules should need to cover then are A) the singular name, B) the location of the faces / mana costs and C) the converted mana cost. Also I think I gave the wrong idea about the mechanical notes, they weren't intended to be comp rules but more like the kind of release notes you get with new sets. Not that I don't appreciate potential comps rules being created, of course, but they don't need to be scrapped for the sake of redundancy as they're there for clarification purposes (e.g. instigate's rules text is pretty much identical to its reminder text, but there's rules to clarify parts that people have been confused about such as whether or not creatures that died in combat should count.) fluffydeathbringer: Thanks again for your support, and everybody else following the thread too 🙌🙌🙌 To clarify, writer!Kagara and card!Kagara are indeed the same; the screen we're looking at is Sanvere's stolen copy of Kagara's daily log, with the cards and commentary at the sides added by Sanvere personnel which is why she's referred to by her ID rather than her name. I already made a little change but I'm not sure if I need to make it clearer (particularly now that I've, like, written this)
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kinotherapy
6/6 Wurm
stupid kor i just fell out of the floor
Posts: 322
Favorite Card: Ruthless Raider
Favorite Set: Rising Tides
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kinotherapy on Nov 22, 2018 20:27:57 GMT
Though Sanvere effectively owns Scar City, it doesn't rule it. That responsibility falls to the Ministry, a government that serves as the city's police, military, and legislature. The Ministry has existed since Scar City's creation, and though it suffers with bureaucracy, it is remarkably efficient in stomping out crime when it directs its attention to it; so good, in fact, that the peacekeepers can arrive at a crime scene and arrest the perpetrator before the crime is even committed. Snapcast is mechanically quite similarly to dash, but in practice, it couldn't play more differently. The combination of flash with a reduced alternate casting cost let you emergency-block with your snapcast soldiers early, then bring them out in full force later when you have the mana. Since snapcast cards only stick around until the end of turn (and because there's naturally no haste in the faction) blocking is about all you can do with the common snapcast costs such as Fix-Up Crew's — but that's fine, as you don't lose cards from it, and even gain card advantage if you're able to kill an attacking creature. More advanced snapcast cards have a little more going on: Gifted Philanthrope is eager to bring out your group hug side and gifts you (and your opponents) a card every time you cast for her either cost. Population Planner, on the other hand, hates everybody, and essentially taxes each player's permanent spells — and also heavily taxes their token creation on something like Arm the Masses. If you snapcast it though, you can catch your opponent out if they're tapped out, killing whatever permanent spells they've cast. And Quickshift Replicant, well, I don't really know what to suggest you do with that. Nonsense, probably. While you can recast snapcast creatures turn after turn for grindy advantage, you do have to look out for your opponents' removal, as your creatures don't go back to your hand if they go to your graveyard first. White, black, and red all have instant speed removal at common in Living in Scar City, and blue has access to bounce and counterspells, which means all four colors have ways of dealing with them. If you were paying attention to the cards from yesterday's preview, you may have noticed an enchantment theme. The Ministry are a powerful militaristic force, but they're also the legislators, and if there's anything they like more than enforcing the rules, it's making them. So with a certain color absent, it shouldn't be surprising that " style="max-width:100%;"] is the enchantment friendly color pair, and that enchantments get snapcast aswell as creatures. Here are the snapcast enchantments that you can play with Stargazing Cosmonaut to lose all your friends.
Before we finish, as the last mechanic previews included some synergistic cards, I decided to do the same for snapcast. It might not be clear at first what exactly synergizes here (other than Mysterious Disappearance) but here's my take: if you're using a mechanic that lets you play most of your deck at instant speed, it makes sense to play the rest of your deck at instant speed too. Some instants have already been previewed, such as Drop a Line and Suspect Spotted, but here are a few more you could consider for a snapcast deck.
{Mechanical Notes} SnapcastSnapcast represents two abilities: one static ability that functions while the card with snapcast is on the stack, and a static ability that functions while the object with snapcast is on the battlefield. "Snapcast [cost]” means “You may cast this card by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost at any time you could cast an instant,” and “If you chose to pay this spell’s snapcast cost, return the permanent this spell becomes to its owner’s hand at the beginning of the next cleanup step.” - Snapcast is an alternative casting cost that also lets the spell be cast as though it had flash. You must declare which cost you're using to cast the spell as you begin to cast it. You can't cast a snapcast spell as though it had flash and then pay its regular mana cost.
- Although snapcast lets you cast a spell at any time you could cast an instant, you may still cast it at any time you could only cast a sorcery. In this instance, it's crucial to clarify whether you're casting that spell for its regular mana cost or its snapcast cost before you pay that cost.
- If you choose to pay the snapcast cost rather than the mana cost, you’re still casting the spell. It goes on the stack and can be responded to and countered.
- If you pay the snapcast cost to cast a permanent spell, that card will be returned to its owner’s hand only if it’s still on the battlefield when its triggered ability resolves. If it goes to the graveyard or another zone before then, it will stay where it is.
- Unlike many other effects, snapcast permanents are returned to their owners' hands at the beginning of the next cleanup step, not end step. This is to prevent snapcast creatures from remaining on the battlefield and being able to attack next turn if they're cast for their snapcast cost during an opponent's end step. If a spell is cast for its snapcast cost during the cleanup step (such as in response to another snapcast trigger) there will be an additional cleanup step. This can occur repeatedly.
- If you cast multiple spells for their snapcast costs in one turn, their return to hand triggers will trigger simultaneously and you'll choose the order they go on the stack. The order can matter, particularly when Auras are involved: for example, suppose you control Plasma Infusion attached to Spoiled Prodigy, both of which you cast for their snapcast costs. At the beginning of the next cleanup step, if you stack Spoiled Prodigy's trigger above Plasma Infusion's, then Spoiled Prodigy will be returned but Plasma Infusion will become unattached and go to your graveyard. Otherwise, both will be returned to your hand.
- If multiple players cast spells for their snapcast costs in one turn, first active player player will put their triggered abilities on the stack, then each other player in turn order. For example, suppose you control Plasma Infusion attached to an opponent's Spoiled Prodigy, both of which were cast for their snapcast costs. At the beginning of the next cleanup step, if it's your turn, your opponent's snapcast trigger will go on the stack after yours and resolve first, causing Plasma Infusion to become unattached and go to the graveyard. If it's your opponent's turn however, both permanents will be returned to their owners' hands.
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