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Post by kefke on Feb 28, 2019 17:19:31 GMT
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Post by Xenagos on Feb 28, 2019 19:26:46 GMT
I'm considering a mechanic that transforms a creature into a spell - probably been done before - but which of these seems like the best formatting?
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 1, 2019 2:18:02 GMT
I love this reading of it. |
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Post by Flo00 on Mar 1, 2019 4:35:19 GMT
Xenagos: I'd go with the middle one but add "without paying its mana cost" to the reminder. Made a Treasure Hunt + Erratic Explosion using the Hypothesizzle-style template, so you know how much damage you deal before choosing a target. Burning Ideas    Sorcery  Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a nonland card. When you do, Burning Ideas deals damage equal to the last revealed card’s converted mana cost to target creature or player, then put all cards revealed this way into your hand.
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temawimag
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 137
Favorite Card: Elite Arcanist
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Post by temawimag on Mar 1, 2019 9:53:30 GMT
I'm trying to make a R/U creature-based mechanic. So far, I'm thinking of something to do with expanding pinging, but there's only so many ways you can type "T: deal damage." Could anyone just toss out a prompt for anything to get the noggin' joggin'? I'm considering a mechanic that transforms a creature into a spell - probably been done before - but which of these seems like the best formatting? First, might want to consider renaming the instant part, since "Tricks of the Trade" is already taken. With that out of the way, you're right about the mechanic being done before, albeit in reverse. Persistent Nightmare took a spell card and transformed it into a creature. As for your templates there, you'll want to base it off of the second one, since putting a mana cost on the third one implied you can directly cast outside of the ability. Note my wording there, since this means that you'll need to word your ability in a way that lets you cast the transformed copy of the card from exile, which means that you'll need to find a way to transform it from exile, or read it from exile transformed. The second template's wording seems to lean on this, but I'm not familiar enough with the rules to tell you if that as-is covers all of the intricacies of it. |
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Post by kefke on Mar 1, 2019 11:52:30 GMT
Xenagos : I think the last two seem least wonky. In general, I just thing the templating on flip cards is awful, though. They were basically only made because at that time WotC hadn't been willing to mess with card backs, as I understand it. I think the wording you'd want to use is something along the lines of "Exile it transformed. You may cast it without paying its casting cost." The second line is necessary because the reverse side of a double-faced card never has its own cost (this is not specifically stated by the rules, but implied in that the CMC of both faces are based off of the front face), and non-existing costs can't be paid. temawimag : Well, my own interpretation was to give R/U the discarded "skillhaste" keyword (able to use tap abilities the turn it comes into play, but not attack) mentioned in one of the Making Magic articles on Future Sight, as Red is the colour of haste, and Blue cares about skill and flexibility. Other than that, I'd say think about things that both Red and Blue care about. Where's the overlap in what they do? Looking through the alphabetical section of this article gives a few answers. To keep things simple, I'll only be looking at situations where it's the same frequency for both. Unless something stands out, I'll be ignoring things every colour can do, and most things at tertiary, as well. - Red and Blue are both secondary in casting from the graveyard. Making a keyword trigger for this probably bumps them up a bit too much, but if we key it off of something combat related, it might work. Dealing damage is an obvious answer, but we can limit it further with some other triggers. For instance, let the player cast a spell from the graveyard when it is dealt lethal damage in combat, as a kind of last dramatic finish.
- The next time I spot a shared secondary is in +N/+N effects. Only problem is that it's in auras...but what about a condition that turns a creature into an aura? There's a few ways this could trigger, reversible or not. It could work off the creature's P/T, a fixed value, or a scalable variable.
- -N/-N on spells is tertiary in both, and -N/-N until end of turn could also be seen as a more aggressive form of pinging. A creature ability can be like a spell so there's some option there. It can also be triggered by spells, bringing to mind something along the lines of Extort where you spend
 to give a target creature -1/-1 each time you cast a spell (I'll call that one Confute, cuz I found it with the thesaurus and it sounds cool).
- Red and Blue each have a freezing (doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step) ability that they are exclusive and primary in. Blue gets creatures, and Red gets lands. These are technically separate mechanics, but no other colours are noted as getting a freezing trick at all. Combine this into a trigger that does general freezing, and it should still be fitting.
- Blue and Red both hold primary and exclusive control of spell copying. This is a "rare for a reason" ability, and might not be suitable for a locked-in ability, especially on creatures, but it's still possible that it could be done with the right implementation.
- Likewise, they both share equal dominance of redirecting spells. There's much more potential here for something that creatures let a player do reliably, since the number of spells being cast doesn't change, just where they go.
- I'm going to cheat on this one. These days, permanent stealing is permanent in Blue, and temporary in Red, but temporary steal used to be much more common in Blue. The downside here is that stealing permanents, even temporarily, is a strong ability. Possibly too strong to be "keyword frequent".
- The last thing to show in both colours, which is also primary, is Wheeling (pitching a hand and drawing a new one), which is another strong ability. There might be a way to do this one too, but it's another "rare for a reason" effect that might be too disruptive to the game if it was made more frequent.
Now, obviously there's more overlap between the two, and some where the theming outweighs the difference in how frequently each colour gets the effect, but hopefully this serves as a good starting point to get some ideas.
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temawimag
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 137
Favorite Card: Elite Arcanist
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Post by temawimag on Mar 1, 2019 14:14:15 GMT
temawimag : Well, my own interpretation was to give R/U the discarded "skillhaste" keyword (able to use tap abilities the turn it comes into play, but not attack) mentioned in one of the Making Magic articles on Future Sight, as Red is the colour of haste, and Blue cares about skill and flexibility. Other than that, I'd say think about things that both Red and Blue care about. Where's the overlap in what they do? Looking through the alphabetical section of this article gives a few answers. To keep things simple, I'll only be looking at situations where it's the same frequency for both. Unless something stands out, I'll be ignoring things every colour can do, and most things at tertiary, as well. - Red and Blue are both secondary in casting from the graveyard. Making a keyword trigger for this probably bumps them up a bit too much, but if we key it off of something combat related, it might work. Dealing damage is an obvious answer, but we can limit it further with some other triggers. For instance, let the player cast a spell from the graveyard when it is dealt lethal damage in combat, as a kind of last dramatic finish.
- The last thing to show in both colours, which is also primary, is Wheeling (pitching a hand and drawing a new one), which is another strong ability. There might be a way to do this one too, but it's another "rare for a reason" effect that might be too disruptive to the game if it was made more frequent.
Now, obviously there's more overlap between the two, and some where the theming outweighs the difference in how frequently each colour gets the effect, but hopefully this serves as a good starting point to get some ideas.
I'm not too keen on a P/T altering ability or not!haste, but this does give me an idea for a hilarious anti-mill keyword. I'm worried about the balance of it, though. Observant (When one or more instant or sorcery cards enters your graveyard, untap this creature) |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 8, 2019 22:17:43 GMT
Didn't WarCraft 3 do something similar?
Rod of Necromancy  Artifact   ,  : Exile target card from a graveyard. If that card is a creature card, create a tapped black 2/2 Zombie creature token.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 10, 2019 22:21:15 GMT
Because with Impervious Greatwurm, Wizards just quietly & sneakily confirmed that they're still playing the p/t serial escalation game they started way back in Alpha with Force of Nature, going through Colossus of Sardia, Leviathan, Polar Kraken, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Krosan Cloudscraper...hmmm; 14/14's been skipped. Interesting. & there's only Autochthon Wurm to represent 14 toughness. Anyway, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, & Impervious Greatwurm. Have an Un- card:
"Mad Dog" McCree   Legendary Creature--Human Rogue  Drunk (“Mad Dog” McCree deals its combat damage to a random creature, player, or planeswalker. If a spell or ability would have “Mad Dog” McCree choose targets or have targets chosen for “Mad Dog” McCree, those targets are chose at random.)
Stumbling (“Mad Dog” McCree can’t be the nonrandom target of a spell or ability.) 20/20
What do I mean by nonrandom target of a spell or ability? Think Grip of Chaos. Better yet, think of any town drunk trope, where their drunken stumbling (c wot i did thar?) makes them very hard to hit, except by chance.
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Post by Lady Mapi on Mar 11, 2019 4:13:53 GMT
A random idea I had: Erroy, Hand of Innovation -  Legendary Creature - Vedalken Artificer You may spend  as if it were mana of any color. 2/2 |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 11, 2019 6:11:25 GMT
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Post by Lady Mapi on Mar 11, 2019 6:22:37 GMT
Eh, I can live with three-card infinite combos. Also, Erroy should be legendary. I'll go ahead and fix that. |
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Post by Flo00 on Mar 11, 2019 12:23:46 GMT
Speedslinger Creature - Elemental Flash Haste When Speedslinger enters the battlefield during your combat phase before combat damage, it enters the battlefield tapped and attacking. 3/1 |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 13, 2019 0:59:53 GMT
Inspired by Grave Pact and this article:
Carrion Pact Enchantment Flash
Whenever a player sacrifices a creature, that player creates a 1/1 black Insect creature token.
EDIT: Fixed! Thanks, gluestick248 & kefke for your input.
Carrion Pact
Enchantment
Flash
Whenever a player sacrifices a non-Insect creature, that player creates a 1/1 black Insect creature token.
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Post by gluestick248 on Mar 13, 2019 6:47:33 GMT
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Post by kefke on Mar 13, 2019 9:54:09 GMT
It doesn't have to be. It's just that, by all standards of reason and balance, it should be. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 13, 2019 23:05:02 GMT
It doesn't have to be. It's just that, by all standards of reason and balance, it should be. It was meant as a way to hose Grave Pact and its ilk. If I change it (& I prolly will), would it still be enough of a hate card against its intended target? |
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Post by kefke on Mar 14, 2019 1:20:44 GMT
It doesn't have to be. It's just that, by all standards of reason and balance, it should be. It was meant as a way to hose Grave Pact and its ilk. If I change it (& I prolly will), would it still be enough of a hate card against its intended target? The issue with it as-is would be that there are a number of cards with effects triggered by sacrificing a creature and nothing else. Since tokens are still creatures, without the "nontoken" clause, they replace themselves. Infinitely. So anything for which the cost is just a sacrifice becomes infinite. For example, combine it with Ashnod's Altar, and it becomes an infinite mana source. Or with Altar of Dementia you can just win automatically by milling out all of your opponent's decks. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 14, 2019 2:32:25 GMT
Inspired by Magic Mics Top Ten: Warriors:
Avatar of the Wilds Creature--Elf Elemental Avatar Trample
When Avatar of the Wilds enters the battlefield, create X 1/1 green Elf Warrior creature tokens, where X is Avatar of the Wilds’ power.
Avatar of the Wilds’ power and toughness are each equal to the number of creatures you control. */*
Just to clarify: On an empty board, first, what are you doing, and second, you get a 2/2 & a 1/1. |
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Post by FLAREdirector on Mar 15, 2019 2:28:07 GMT
Made this a few days ago. Nice to have somewhere to show it off.  |
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Evil Coco
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 110
Favorite Set: Shadowmoor
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Post by Evil Coco on Mar 15, 2019 17:28:27 GMT
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Post by Daij_Djan on Mar 15, 2019 17:45:58 GMT
@ FLAREdirector : Really like this card - would love to break it in a token deck 
@ Evil Coco : Unless played for  =  , this looks so bad compared to even good old Zombify, or am I missing something? |
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temawimag
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 137
Favorite Card: Elite Arcanist
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Post by temawimag on Mar 17, 2019 5:28:22 GMT
Daij_Djan's right - the cost is far too steep for what you're actually getting, especially since you're restricting it to Hellbent. I do appreciate that it doesn't have "target" in it, though, just because of the shenanigans that can make. |
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Post by FLAREdirector on Mar 17, 2019 16:09:40 GMT
Err, I’m sorry Daij, but I think you’ve misunderstood the card. The Snapjaw is the one getting the +1/+1 counters. Ideally it’s the smallest creature you control when it ETBs. It Evolves, like the old Simic keyword, all at once. Tokens won’t do anything for ol’ Carniflor. Now, a card that gave tokens evolve....  |
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Post by kefke on Mar 17, 2019 16:22:35 GMT
Err, I’m sorry Daij, but I think you’ve misunderstood the card. The Snapjaw is the one getting the +1/+1 counters. Ideally it’s the smallest creature you control when it ETBs. It Evolves, like the old Simic keyword, all at once. Tokens won’t do anything for ol’ Carniflor. Now, a card that gave tokens evolve.... I mean, if you've got a Coat of Arms on the board, then your tokens probably are bigger... |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 17, 2019 18:12:13 GMT
This came to me in a dream fully formed:
Xenophobic Mastodon Creature--Elephant Aggressor (This creature attacks each combat if able.)
Xenophobic Mastodon must attack a planeswalker if able. 8/8 |
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Evil Coco
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 110
Favorite Set: Shadowmoor
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Post by Evil Coco on Mar 17, 2019 20:00:56 GMT
  Honestly, i'm curious as to how the rulings would work (specifically Fearless ranger's effect). |
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temawimag
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 137
Favorite Card: Elite Arcanist
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Post by temawimag on Mar 17, 2019 22:19:06 GMT
Honestly, i'm curious as to how the rulings would work (specifically Fearless ranger's effect). For Fearless Ranger, when you think of it as "When you take damage from a source you don't control," it's perfectly valid. Not much to elaborate on there. For the Burn Up ability (sweet name), I'm not certain that it would be made with the specification to make the source "from" an opponent, since for most cases this is going to be a useless line of text that takes up card space,and for the rest it's an arbitrary decision that makes no real sense. |
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Post by Lady Mapi on Mar 17, 2019 22:28:56 GMT
A cleaner way to do Burn Up would be "When {cardname} enters the battlefield, you may have target opponent deal X damage to you.", or something to that effect.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 18, 2019 21:41:06 GMT
While reading today's Making Magic column, section #2: Bottom-up mechanics, I was inspired to create this:
Raceway Overcharger  Creature--Dwarf Artificer Pilot Haste
Whenever Raceway Overcharger becomes tapped, you may spend . If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. If that creature is a Vehicle, put a +1/+1 counter on Raceway Overcharger. 3/2 |
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"When in doubt, do a common." 