galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on Jan 10, 2019 18:58:54 GMT
Hello! Since last summer I'm developing a LOTR theme set. I know that some previous attempts were made, but my goal it's a little different: I want to make a set (let's say about 250 but could be less or more) with this two features: (a) The set must incorporates the main interactions which we can see in the movies or read in the books. Example of this are: - the fight between Balrog and Gandalf - the control on king Theoden by Wormtongue - the capture and release of Gandalf by Saruman (b) The set must be consistent, playable and draftable. What i mean by that is that for example, even if it would be reasonable to put, let's say, the ability "madness" on the creature of Denethor, this can't be done unless a chunk of the set present the madness ability and some madness enablers. With this goals in mind I have done 100+ cards and I come out with some interesting ideas of interactions. Some examples are: Shelob grows eating her prays, but she cannot do much agains the power of the vial. The nazgul is rather difficult to kill, but Eowyn can do it avoiding the letal combo wither + first strike If someone has some idea of interaction to be implemented, please let me know! At the moment I'm stuck on the design of Frodo Baggins I'm looking for an alternative win codition, but the one I choose has already been taken (see Etrata from the new ravinca set) so I'm looking for something different
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Post by Daij_Djan on Jan 10, 2019 19:47:32 GMT
A LotR set sounds interesting
There is one massive issue I want to point out, though: Fellowship doesn't work. Ability words have no rules meaning whatsoever (see Comp. Rules 207.2 & 207.2c), which means they cannot be referred to. They are basically just reminder text.
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galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on Jan 10, 2019 20:20:15 GMT
Yes, you are totally right now that I think about it. Any idea to make the ability works? The problem is that the ability is different every time. It can be put as:
Fellowship As long as you control another creature with fellowship, Frodo Baggins gains skulk (This creature can’t be blocked by creatures with greater power.)
Here Fellowship is intended as an ability like Flying but that does nothing but enabling other member of the fellowship. Doesn't seems good enough though
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Post by Daij_Djan on Jan 10, 2019 21:30:41 GMT
Yeah, having an ability that basically does nothing except allow to be referred to would be weird. But WotC has found a way to do so in the past: With subtypes! You could add the Fellow creature type and change the ability to: "Fellowship - As long as you control another Fellow, <effect>" It even shortens the wording - not sure if the typeline could handle it on all other cards, though.
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galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on Jan 10, 2019 21:37:51 GMT
That's actually an interesting idea, although I don't like it completely. Must be one of the few way, though.
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Post by Daij_Djan on Jan 10, 2019 21:52:54 GMT
Another option would be something simple like "Fellowship N (This gets +N/+N as long as you control ?? other [nontoken?] creatures.)" It's simple but flavorfull and not parasitic - and would allow to be referred to by other cards..
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Post by melono on Jan 10, 2019 22:19:32 GMT
At first glance (at mostly the name) Fellowship made me think of Soulbond, but Soulbond doesn't need the other to have Soulbond; what's similar is that it bonds creatures together, and they're giving (each other) traits based on activation of the ability. Something that you might want to look at if you don't want this set to be entirely isolated is how limited the Fellowship mechanic is (though, there are plenty of similarly isolating mechanics in current magic like Arcanes or certain creature-type-support like Ally (which Daij_Djan kinda suggested with the creature type Fellow), so take this however you want) Anyhow, be careful with alternative wincons (and making them too easy to get), as it can make the opponent feel very cheated. Alternative wincons are often very hard to attain and require a deck to be build entirely around it and still be not-very-viable. You'll have to playtest how easy it is to win with your alternative wincons, and in which formats your set will care about (because, for example, making Frodo a Commander could be pretty OP as you simply put it back into the command zone). My three cents. I liked the Shelob-Vial interaction when against each other, but also when they are owned by the same person.
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galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on Jan 10, 2019 22:53:43 GMT
Had not thought of Vial and spider on the same side of the table.. it's kind of a flavour fail Thinking of specific abilities in just one set, I'm not very concerned.. For example, Grandeour from Future Sight appears on only five cards (ok, I guess its future sight, but..) About the win condition on Frodo, I agree that the win-con must be rather difficult to accomplish, although if we look at cards like Approach of the Second Sun, it is not so difficult to get the win. Anyway, I thought it will be cool doing something that causes Frodo to shuffle back in the library because I had planned some interations with the others hobbit: Frodo wants to win, and Sam, Merry and Pippin help him out by searching it back from the library (sam) and repeat it again (merry and pippin). Plus, Merry and Pippin have some nice interation with elves and ent which I made with a lot of ETB effects. I'm not sure the nine-lines text is worth on an uncommon though. Not sure of the power level balance either.
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Post by fluffydeathbringer on Jan 11, 2019 14:08:45 GMT
my preferred kind of third-party translation is one where the existing framework of mtg (types, colors, etc) is used to express the third-party thing more than things are being added to the framework in order to accommodate for concepts that could be expressed in the framework already. it's from that place that these comments come
- Fellow could just be Ally
- mtg already has a type for hobbit-adjacent creatures, it's Kithkin - merry and pippin is really weak in comparison to other uncommons in the set (which feature Shelob of all things, which baffles me. also out of color pie. deeptapping is blue) - with all these legends at uncommon this basically screams for one of the set themes to be legends-matters, otherwise legendaries are so much associated with rare+ rarity that having them around at uncommon will be received poorly across the board - the one ring weakens you unless you're. already weak. weird - ironically Sting would probably see play in Goblin/Orc tribal more than act as a hate piece for it - eowyn is also kinda weak. a legendary vanilla bear that you have to pay more mana (the equip/aura cost) in order to transform into a creature that's a lord for a keyword that'll probably only be in the set a few times?
- Suggestion for Frodo: "Whenever Frodo deals combat damage to a player, you may pay <cost> and sacrifice a legendary artifact. If you do, you win the game." and have it shuffle itself into its library for profit some other way if you want to have that as a mini-theme?
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galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on Jan 11, 2019 16:50:07 GMT
Thank you very much for the feedbacks. I had thought of making the hobbit as Kithkin, but I have decided agains it and now I think it's better to leave them "hobbit" as a new race. About the Fellow/Ally thing, I have to think about this; I'm not sure I like it neither way. I'll think about a solution but for the time being it's not a crucial thing to fix. Legends as uncommons have the main purpose of enable most of the sinergies I have thought of a little more often than normal, in a draft/sealed or something. As you rightly said, it would be a waste to not use them to enable some mechanic, and I have think about this in the past. I come out with a mechanic called "Reliance" which is the Gondor-faction mechanic. Merry and pippin may seems week but I think they can be very strong to enable the ETB triggers of other cards, plus if you have two copies of it you can bounce them back and forth and gain life in the process. I don't know if I'll dare boost them up. Maybe just turn them into 2/2... I'm very open to suggestion anyway. I would also consider suggestion to make Eowyn a little stronger. The ability oin Sting need to be fixed as "your opponent control". You are totally right on it. Last, the alternative wincon on Frodo: I appreciate your idea, but it seems a little too flavour focused. Thanks for all this useful suggestion anyway EDIT: I just tried something like this (Power level to be balanced)
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Post by uaiop on May 20, 2019 21:08:12 GMT
galva94: i think this idea is really great...i know it is difficult but as it is so overused i was well impressed with your work. Art, flavour, text...it is not an easy task What did you do of this?
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Post by ameisenmeister on May 21, 2019 23:00:48 GMT
I too like the change to the fellow creature type. But it might make the mechanic a bit too insular depending on how many creatures with fellow your set will have. I've, admittedly, probably not seen all the Lord of the Ring movies but as far as I'm aware, there are only a handful fellows, am I right?
The Reliance mechanic seems simple enough to like but could be redundant in that it is very similar to the fellow creatures. Are all fellows going to be legendary? (also, I'm pretty sure it's "creatures you control get +1/+1." not "have")
The Spear mechanic, I don't like very much. First, it's again about creatures, just as the other two mechanics. Second, its design space is very narrow. You will not likely put Spear 3 or higher on more than one creature in your set, maybe not even on one, so there won't be much variance. I assume it's going to play pretty boring even if it is certainly powerful (it imitates double strike, which is a strong ability). Oh, and it will most likely be printed on white and red cards, which I deduced is the Gondor faction about which you said Reliance would be the main mechanic. Maybe it's better to find another mechanic, maybe a bit more centered around instants or sorceries, or enchantments, or anything noncreature for that matter.
Hwever, keep it up, the set looks cool, even to someone who barely knows anything about LotR.
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galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on May 26, 2019 11:30:08 GMT
Thanks for the feedback! To answer to uaiop's question, the final goal of the set is to print and draft the cards with friends, but for now I just want to create some design that mimic the characters and the story of the books/movies.
ameisenmeister: you're right, most of the cards are creature-centered and this is a limit of the set. I need some new ideas here. As you said, the Spear mechanic is not as good as I would like, expecially I find it confusing from the gameplay point of view (its kinda difficult to predict how a combat step will resolve if a couple of creature with spear are involved). Anyway, the mechanic was thought to be adopted for the Rohan faction (green white) while Reliance is for the Gondor one (white red).
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Post by ameisenmeister on May 27, 2019 15:41:58 GMT
If you need some ideas for mechanics and don't mind using someone else's ideas, just send me a message with some specifications on what you are looking for mechanically and maybe I've got something. I designed over 50 mechanics and although they might not all be perfect, I'm sure there could be something useful among these.
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Post by collex on Jun 13, 2019 20:42:48 GMT
Hey there. I like your idea and the designs you have so far. If I may make a few suggestions/asks a few question:
- Have you considered using Sagas, with or without the "historic" keyword, from Dominaria? It seems like that could work really well with The Lord of the Rings. Sagas could help you fit stuff from Middle-Earth that isn't in Lord of the Rings proper, for example.
- What are your factions and what colors are they? Red/White for Gondor might work, but I'd personally put them at W/G and Rohan at W/R. Or you could make the set somewhat more tribal than factional and have all humans as one three color faction (Naya, which I think fit)
- Are you going to put any Planeswalker in it? They aren't a thing in LotR, but they are a core part of modern Magic, so it would be weird to leave them out My personal opinion would be to make Gandalf and Saruman PW, since they are the closest LotR has to them. Gandalf could even be a sparker (The Grey is a legendary creature, The White is a planeswalker). Sauron could also be a PW.
- A piece of advice as a fellow top-down designer: Don't try to match the flavor exactly for every possible card interaction. That way is a fool's errand. With the number of cards and concepts in Magic, wurms wearing boots are inevitable. For example, it's fine for Galadriel's Vial and Shellob to have synergy together and not just against each other. Trying to prevent that would probably means making one or both of the two cards worse.
- Shellob really should be a sexy lady.
That's all for now. And thanks for showing us your work.
P.S.: That last one is a joke.
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galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on Jul 28, 2019 12:58:34 GMT
Thank you very much for your appreciations! - The use of sagas comes to my mind too, and I'm working on some sagas based mostly on the prequel The Hobbit. Those are supposed to be a cycle of 2-colors cards, but with the five color-couples not used for the main factions. Attachment Deleted My factions are the following: GW rohan, WR gondor, UB isengard, UR mordor and UG rivendell/elves. I thought carefully about them and I thing this is the best one can do. Additional factions that maybe can be added with just three or four cards can be: UW laketown, RG dwarves, BW ?? (maybe some gollum related cards?), BG spiders/mirkwood, UR . -Planeswalkers are supposed to be the "Istari", i.e. Gandalf, Radagast, Saruman... Sauron also is probably included. The main idea for these are already done, but some details and power balance are still to be figured out. The thing that is really missing right now is some sweet ideas to make this set kinda unique. Up to now there are no good mechanics that i found to be fitting well. Recently I have not dedicated much time to the project (summertime, you know...) but soon maybe I'll be posting something!
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Post by ameisenmeister on Jul 28, 2019 19:03:26 GMT
Don't want to press myself onto you but if you're looking for fitting mechanics, maybe I can help you. Just tell me - here or via pm - what you are looking for and I might have something.
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galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on Jul 30, 2019 21:09:39 GMT
Sorry ameisenmeister for the late answer, as I sad I have not so much time to spend into the project lately. If you can help me with some mechanics, I'll be very glad! The factions are the ones presdented above, in my previous post. The problem is that up to now, all of them are creature-based. My ideas were these: - UG faction based on scry/fateseal (elves are very good at this in the LOTR world)
- UB faction based on creature token and strategic spells (basically one can draft UB tempo in a hypothetical limited archtype)
- WR faction based on legendary creatures (the idea is that Gondor need a strong king or something to work better)
- WG faction based on equipment/horses/auras.. basically permanents that assigns to other permanets (I was developing the mechanic "Ride", a mix between equip and bestow)
- BR faction is not well defined yet.
I need some help for the BR and WR in particular, if you have something well fitting! Please let me know
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Post by celebrimbor on Nov 3, 2019 9:31:42 GMT
Hi galva, I'm quite new on Magic Set Editor, I've just discovered it. Me and my brother have been working on such a Tolkien project for couple months. We obviously included the Silmarillion, Appendix and The hobbit to the Lotr univers. We also have about a hundred card to show for, however they have been made on MTG cardsmith until now... About the races/factions , what we came up with is :
-WG : Hobbits -WU : Sindar (Elves from first age, Elrond-Galadriel, sons of Fëanor excluded) -WB : Numerorian (Gondor white, Black Numenor Black) -WR : Rohirim -GU : Noldor (Elves from first age, sons of Fëanor) -GB : Mirkwood Elves (Third Age Elf, Legolas etc) -GR : Haradrim, Oliphant, Evil men -UB : Angmar (witch king, barrow wright) -UR : Dwarves -BR : Mordor, Sauron, Orcs Black, Goblin Red
We established the istari as tricolor creatures, the maïars as planeswalker (altought theoretically, istari ARE maïar). Tell we what you think ! Liked your cards
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Post by kefke on Dec 18, 2019 18:10:08 GMT
If you're doing sagas (and still working on this), then let me offer you this silly card I did for a contest ages ago.
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galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on Feb 18, 2020 17:45:11 GMT
celebrimbor I would be glad to see your ideas, if possible, although in my set I excluded the Silmarillion and focused only on The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. kefke The battle of the five army as a saga is a great idea, but in my mind I want that card to cost WUBRG. Seems like a flavour waste not doing so on an event that seems to consider al five color of magic at once
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Post by pratix on Jun 15, 2020 17:46:38 GMT
Hey Galva! Brand new user here. Actually just made the account in order to talk to you. Some friends and I are developing a LOTR MTG set based on the events of the first Movie and i though some of your designs were really cool! (we actually had some similar ideas too ). The idea of our set is to create an "Unbalanced Guild set". Black is left out of the guild concept. The idea is to reflect the fight between the forces of evil and the forces of good. We wan't to make black a monocolor arquetipe during draft (we are actually planning to print boosters and draft them). We are still working on the mechanics, but i thought i'd share some of them here, as well as a couple of designs we have already "approved" for testing. Ringbearer - This mechanic is global to all non-black cards. Whenever a creature with ringbearer enters the battlefield, if you don't control one already, create a legendary equipment token called "The One Ring" and attach it to that creature. We haven't decided on what the ring is going to do just yet, but it's going to have both a positive and a negative effect on the player. Our reasoning was that we wanted the war of the ring to dictate as many game experiences as possible. Thus, we made it a mechanic. Black doesn't have access to Ringbearer, but they can "steal" the ring. Some black cards (such as the Nazgul) are going to allow the black player to steal the ring from the forces of good. Fellowship - GW Mechanic. We see fellowship as an "anti-tribal" mechanic. The idea is that the player that plays a card with fellowship gets a bonus for each creature they control that doesn't share any creature types with other creatures they control. Glimpse - UG Mechanic. The flavor behind it is that some creatures (such as Elrond or Galadriel) have the power to "see the future", but said future is uncertain. The mechanic reads "Search your library for a creature card and reveal it. Shuffle your library, then shuffle the card you revealed with the top four cards of your library. We have a couple more that are in the works, but they are still being determined. We are also designing 2 cycles 1) An "Anti-black" hoser cards (cards that to certain effects and if they target a black creature, you draw a card) 2) A guild specific "event" I've attached some designs, hope you get to see them!
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galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on Jun 16, 2020 19:10:46 GMT
Hello pratix! It's been a long time since I posted something new under this thread, but I'm happy to say that my lotr set is being tested and almost finished (at least on the first version). (At the moment I'm willing to setup a decent limited experience so I'm just testing commons/uncommons). Let me say my opinion on the mechanics you and your friends are developing: (1) Ringbearer: This is certainly the more interesting, because is potentially very game-warping and unique. I like it a lot! But the big problem I see is: for this to work you need to put the ability ringbearer on some commons and uncommons card, or it loses the purpose of giving unique drawt experience. But as we know, flavourfully there are not many ringbearer: bilbo, frodo, gollum and maybe sam on some extend but not really. Curious to know how you menage to handle this mechanic. It remind me a bit of "the monarch" mechanic, but as you see, in this case there was a lot of commons/uncommons to get the crown (2) Fellowship: Of course I like this as well, since it's very similar to the one I was thinking about while ago. I have to say that this suffers of the same problem of "ringbearer", altough I guess you can make some random cards to have fellowship in this case, and the shall work like Allies from zendikar or something. In my set I decided to write down the ability explicitly (I mean, with no keyword) and just on three or four rare/uncommons member of the fellowship. I think this gives a touch of flavour without forcing too much on cards that do not deserve it. (3) Glimpse: This I don't like much, because It seems to me a bit redundant to have on multiple cards. I mean, let's say you have an elf cc3 and another on cc4 in your hand: you cannot play them one after the other to curve out, because the second trigger will shuffle away the first. Maybe some reiteration of an ability as Explore from ixalan would work better (e.g. reveal the first card and you can draw it if it's a creature or something on those lines). This can be enabled with some other library manipulations cards, like creatures that scry when enters or something similar. Then there is the idea of "Black vs Raindow". I think this is cool as well but need to be supported very well, in order to give a good limited experience: Think for example if four people out of eight tries to force mono black. This could turn to be miserable for them, fight over a handful of cards. Just for let you know and maybe get some inspioration, I attach a few of my cards which features my mechanics: UG ElvesUB Isengard WR Gondor (Durin's day is an exception on the gondor faction) BR MordorGW Rohan The rohan (GW) faction does not really have a mechanic, but it is based on creature that buffs each other, representing horses and their riders. If you are interesed I can share more of my cards (I'm planning to do it anyway soon or later, since the things are starting to come together).
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Post by pratix on Jun 21, 2020 23:17:39 GMT
Hello again, dude! Thanks a lot for replying! Sorry i took a while, busy life i guess? I loved the cards you showed me! I especially loved the "Majestic" mechanic. It's great and flavorful. I've read your comments on our ideas as well, and i get a lot of your doubts. Concerning ringbearer, we have not decided yet how "special" the mechanic is going to be. Of course there are only a few ringbearers across the movies, but an idea we've been pondering is designing "events" that trigger said ability, but it's still just an idea. About fellowship, i had the exact same thought process as you did. There are only going to be a few cards that actually have the mechanic written on them. I'll leave you and example or two at the end . Glimpse has been the most challenging ability to design so far. I really liked your suggestions on this matter, i'll talk to the guys and see what we can make up. In regards to the "Black vs Else", we've worked the numbers and of course black is going to be pretty boosted in terms of quantity. We are going to have something between 50-60 black cards on the set. The idea is to support two players drafting black (maybe we'll try to push it to three) Anyway, I would really like to see your whole set or even play it! (Are you as good as playing as you are designing, i'd like to test that ) Finally, some new designs i've done (Is Boromir too busted? ) Stay in touch!
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galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on Jun 24, 2020 20:22:08 GMT
Wow really like Eternal Binding, very flavourful! Boromir is fairly strong, maybe even underpowered for a mythic. By the way I've chosen to design many the main characters as uncommon: in this way they appear much more frequently in a regular draft event, and the players feels more like they are actually playing a lord of the ring set. I reserved the rare and mythic slots to other secondary important characters, like Elrond, Smaug or Galadriel This, by the way, is my current iteration of Boromir. Quite similar to yours to be fair!
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galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on Nov 28, 2020 17:20:50 GMT
Hey mtg+lotr fans, I have a challenge for you all! And it goes like this: Try to design one or more of three sagas, named: "The Fellowhip of the Ring", "The Two Towers", "The Return of the King". Each of them must encapsulate the plot of the movie/book the best you can, and each must have the following mana cost color: "The Fellowhip of the Ring" W/U G "The Two Towers" U/R B "The Return of the King". R/G W I ask this to you because I'm kinda stuck and some external ideas will be very usefull. Actually, feel free to post anything that spring to your mind, even if it doesn't satisfy all my restrictions. As an example, here there are the other two which complete the cycle, designed by me. Thanks everyone in advance! Any ideas or suggestion is more than welcomed, really
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jverse
3/3 Beast
Posts: 195
Favorite Card: Animar, Soul of Elements
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Post by jverse on Nov 30, 2020 3:29:58 GMT
I might work on these sagas over the next day or two. Thanks for turning me on to that artist you used, by the way. His (or her) stuff is a real treat! I could design dozens of sagas just based on this killer artwork for some of my favourite movies, games, and books.
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galva94
2/2 Zombie
Posts: 123
Favorite Card: Cryptic Command
Favorite Set: Kamigawa
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by galva94 on Dec 4, 2020 15:50:11 GMT
I want to share with the community my new saga cards. I'm pretty satisfied, I have to say, but the power level has to be tested and balanced. Slightly revisited with respect to the previous version. The flavour is pretty straight forward on this: some dwarves want to recapture the Lonely Mountain, but -spoiler alert- at the end their leader dies in a battle. Here the colors represent the evil factions of my set: UB for isengard and Saruman, BR for mordor and Sauron. Tracking the storyline of the book in just three/four saga chapter is not an easy task, expacially from the "evil" point of view. So i went for a different approach: The idea here is that the evil continues its machination, like spawning orcs and damaging creatures, until the river free from the dam washes away everything: orcs and evil deeds. The balance in this is very hard to get right. Suggestions are very welcomed The colors represent the united factions of Gondor RW and Rohan WG. In the first chapter the army tries to resist as hard as it can, until in the second chapter the undeads woke up by aragorn & co comes to help with the fight. At the end Aragon becomes king of the middle earth. As you noticed, a saga is still missing. I'm still working it out, and I will post it as soon as I can.
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