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Post by ameisenmeister on Dec 18, 2018 11:27:20 GMT
Hello everyone,
I came up with this mechanic, obviously inspired by the famous namesake card, and am now wondering whether it is prone to be broken. I thought about it for quite some time but I still might be missing something important. But have a look at the mechanic first:
Polymorph (the spell) is well known for its use in semi-powerful combo decks where Khalni Garden tokens or 0/0 germs are transformed into Emrakul, the Eons Torn, as early as turn three or four. I prevent this from happening by capping the potential in a way that sacrificed creatures can only find cards with one mana higher cmc.
Further things to know: - to Polymorph a creature always costs four mana, regardless how big or expensive the sacrificed creature was - because of this, most of the creatures with Polymorph have effects when they enter the battlefield from your library that make them about as good as a four drop for which you also had to sac a creature - I'm aware that you can build a deck where you just play four copies of your favorite Polymorpher and experience a very consistent gameplay. However, I believe that this is less of a problem as it would require harsh limits on what to have in your deck in the first place.
So please give me some feedback about it. Do you like it? Do you think it's interesting? Is the wording right? Can this mechanic blow up in my face?
Thanks everyone!
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Post by Jéské Couriano on Dec 18, 2018 23:01:54 GMT
The mana cost to use the ability needs to likewise be mutable, or <foo> needs to have a hard cap. Otherwise, it seems fine.
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Post by ameisenmeister on Dec 19, 2018 21:41:28 GMT
Why does it have to be mutable? (I assume you mean that it has to be different, depending on the creature.) You already paid more mana to cast the creature with higher Polymorph number in the first place. Please explain.
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Post by gateways7 on Dec 19, 2018 22:46:41 GMT
Two things - you're saying why does it have to be mutable, but why does it have to always be Polymorph for 4 mana? I don't think that needs to be a requirement, especially if you're spending the mana to look for a 3-drop. I think that it would make more sense for both the number and the cost to be variable, like suspend, so that you always have more room to tweak the power level of the card, and so that you can create more interesting effects, like having a high-cost, high-number polymorph effect or a cheap one that gets 1-mana spells. Furthermore, if you're going to make it a 4-mana constant anyways, make it part of the reminder text, so you could use something like this: Polymorph N (, Sacrifice this creature: Reveal cards from the top of your library...)
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Post by Jéské Couriano on Dec 19, 2018 23:41:21 GMT
arisenmeister ) You may or may not have paid a higher price initially, but a mutable Polymorph cost allows you to use it to fetch potentially stronger creatures at an appropriate cost.
The alternative is limiting the Polymorph number to no more than 5/6, full stop.
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Post by ameisenmeister on Dec 20, 2018 10:04:49 GMT
Okay, let me explain why I chose to have all the Polymorph abilities have the same cost.
With this ability, chances are that you don't always get the best possible result, e.g. you use a Polymorph 5 ablity and just flip over a two mana creature. This would be a major feel bad unless the new creature brings a bonus that respects the cost you paid to ploymorph into it. In the case of Conglomerat Ambassador, you draw two cards. So if you sacrifice a creature to plolymorph, you have the chance to find a creature with higher cmc, but if you don't it's not that bad because even the smaller creatures then will have a bonus that makes it worth.
So if I follow your advice to make the costs different depending on the creature, there would be no way to make small creatures worth it to polymorph into with big creatures. Nobody would want to use the polymorph of their four or five mana creature if they could just turn it into a two drop with no additional upsides. And the same problem comes up the other way round. If I design each creature to be worth it getting polymorphed into with your big guys, a turn two ploymorph into such a creature would be way too powerful, wouldn't it?
Please tell me if I'm missing something but as far as I see it, having a fixed cost is the only way to have the mechanic balanced.
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Post by Jéské Couriano on Dec 21, 2018 0:30:57 GMT
Okay, let me explain why I chose to have all the Polymorph abilities have the same cost.
With this ability, chances are that you don't always get the best possible result, e.g. you use a Polymorph 5 ablity and just flip over a two mana creature. This would be a major feel bad unless the new creature brings a bonus that respects the cost you paid to ploymorph into it. In the case of Conglomerat Ambassador, you draw two cards. So if you sacrifice a creature to plolymorph, you have the chance to find a creature with higher cmc, but if you don't it's not that bad because even the smaller creatures then will have a bonus that makes it worth.
So if I follow your advice to make the costs different depending on the creature, there would be no way to make small creatures worth it to polymorph into with big creatures. Nobody would want to use the polymorph of their four or five mana creature if they could just turn it into a two drop with no additional upsides. And the same problem comes up the other way round. If I design each creature to be worth it getting polymorphed into with your big guys, a turn two ploymorph into such a creature would be way too powerful, wouldn't it?
Please tell me if I'm missing something but as far as I see it, having a fixed cost is the only way to have the mechanic balanced.
You are - the mana cost is another balancing lever that can be used, and while there is some luck involved you shouldn't be able to even have a chance to cheat in a 7/8CMC bomb with a mana cost of 4 without significant setup beforehand. Just putting the creature on the battlefield isn't significant enough of a hoop for this.
Thus, you need to treat the mana cost as you would any other variable and cost the Polymorph ability appropriately, or max out the Polymorph at 5/6.
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Post by ameisenmeister on Dec 21, 2018 10:50:13 GMT
Okay, let me explain why I chose to have all the Polymorph abilities have the same cost.
With this ability, chances are that you don't always get the best possible result, e.g. you use a Polymorph 5 ablity and just flip over a two mana creature. This would be a major feel bad unless the new creature brings a bonus that respects the cost you paid to ploymorph into it. In the case of Conglomerat Ambassador, you draw two cards. So if you sacrifice a creature to plolymorph, you have the chance to find a creature with higher cmc, but if you don't it's not that bad because even the smaller creatures then will have a bonus that makes it worth.
So if I follow your advice to make the costs different depending on the creature, there would be no way to make small creatures worth it to polymorph into with big creatures. Nobody would want to use the polymorph of their four or five mana creature if they could just turn it into a two drop with no additional upsides. And the same problem comes up the other way round. If I design each creature to be worth it getting polymorphed into with your big guys, a turn two ploymorph into such a creature would be way too powerful, wouldn't it?
Please tell me if I'm missing something but as far as I see it, having a fixed cost is the only way to have the mechanic balanced.
You are - the mana cost is another balancing lever that can be used, and while there is some luck involved you shouldn't be able to even have a chance to cheat in a 7/8CMC bomb with a mana cost of 4 without significant setup beforehand. Just putting the creature on the battlefield isn't significant enough of a hoop for this.
Thus, you need to treat the mana cost as you would any other variable and cost the Polymorph ability appropriately, or max out the Polymorph at 5/6.
But the Polymorph costs already are maxed out, aren't they? The Ambassador has a cmc of two and can only get three mana creatures at max, Iridescale costs four mana and can only get up to a five mana creature, and the Reaper costs five and can get everything up to six mana cmc via Polymorph. The hoop you have to jump through in order to cheat a 7/8CMC bomb into play is having a 6CMC bomb in play and then sacrificing it.
Sorry if I'm still not getting your point.
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Post by voltaic-qui on Dec 22, 2018 17:36:25 GMT
IMO the cool (and powerful) thing about this mechanic is that you can use it to blank removal, not that you can chain these into one another (which might happen, or might not).
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Post by ameisenmeister on Dec 22, 2018 18:11:08 GMT
IMO the cool (and powerful) thing about this mechanic is that you can use it to blank removal, not that you can chain these into one another (which might happen, or might not). Oh, I actually just forgot the rider "Polymoprph only as a sorcery." But maybe it's cooler that way, don't know whether it's too powerful then. Opinions?
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