MonkeyChewToy
1/1 Squirrel
Back in the Saddle
Posts: 52
Favorite Card: Darksteel Relic
Favorite Set: Battlebond
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by MonkeyChewToy on Nov 9, 2021 7:49:17 GMT
Alrighty, sorry for the delay. Thank you, everyone, for your patience. And now, for the Summary Judgment! Your card is the total package—an interesting and powerful suite of abilities, solid mana cost for her size and abilities, an interesting commander to build around, and an off-color ability that captures her color identity from the deep lore and plays well with the 'madness' concept. (Mostly the flavor, but hey, it's a discard outlet for the keyword too!) The only knocks I have against it are that her name is far too long for a render, (though "Matron of Madness" fits, if you plan on using this design elsewhere,) some very minor phrasing issues, (it should be, "  ,  , Discard a card: Each player returns a card at random from their graveyard to their hand,") and I'm on the fence about her creature type being Wizard over, say, Warlock. None of these was enough to dock a point in my mind, even when taken together. Stellar work.  10/10I like your method for identifying the least-loved cards from the set, and your efforts to rehabilitate them. (More feedback on the set in the spoiler below.) The concept for this card is incredibly interesting—an unkillable Troll with a very unique set of abilities that could be abused by jumping through the right hoops. This is the sort of card that would have been much easier to make in, say, 1994, when you could have written something like "If Troll is destroyed or sacrificed while it is untapped, it becomes tapped instead of dying" and then the rules would be written around the existing card. As is, it doesn't quite accomplish what you set out to do, and in order to do everything you set out to, you'd need either a lot more text or a different approach. The spirit and innovation behind this card, I feel, definitely warrant the effort needed to get it right.  7/10{Spoiler} | Serra Inspectors | A strong design that might be too strong in certain environments, but doesn't seem unreasonable. This is the sort of design that would really just come down to playtesting to fine-tune the numbers—the bones of the card are good as-is. | | Deep-Sea Troll | The first wrinkle here is that if it ever gets -1/-1, it'll try to die but be regenerated instead—but it will still have zero toughness, and immediately try to die again, and get regenerated again, etc. My best solution to this is to break up that ability into two parts:
- Effects that would reduce Deep-Sea Troll’s toughness to 1 or less reduce it to 1 instead.
- If Sea Troll would be destroyed, regenerate it. (Tap it, remove it from combat, and heal all damage on it.)
The next wrinkle, which the above points already start to fix, is that if the creature can't die, it can't be sacrificed, so abilities that cost "sacrifice a creature" can't be paid and therefore can't be activated. In this case, I think we need it to die to be effective—but we can bring it right back.
- When Deep-Sea Troll is sacrificed to pay a cost, if it was untapped, return it to the battlefield tapped under its owner's control.
This lets us get our value out of it and potentially exploit it with things like Intruder Alarm, but it doesn't stop anything from working. This is unique and inventive enough, with enough potential power, that I think it could make a cool mythic in a set, possibly re-concepted as something like "Persistent Illusion" instead of a sea troll.
The other approach I alluded to would be to ditch the complicated wording here in favor of a combination persist or undying + a way to remove the counter under some circumstance. This might cut down on overall wordiness, but I haven't tried writing one out yet.
| | Timmerian Treasure Scroungers | This is an excellent re-imagining of the ante mechanic, and frankly I'm floored by the elegance of it. The only complaint that I have is that the second ability is in an unfortunate place where it feels somehow too weak and too strong at the same time. First, with  in the activation cost, most of your opponents won't even be able to activate it, which sort of defeats the purpose. Second, exiling eight cards and having access to them for the rest of the game? That's effectively saying "draw eight cards" and that's far and away worth more than any artifact I could steal from you. It's also in need of a "you may spend mana as though it were any color" rider. Still, wonderful design, and with generic activation costs and a slightly less swingy second ability, it could be a real contender. If you wanted to reuse this design in another set, you wouldn't even have to change the concept—in the deep lore, Timmothius was a planeswalker who sent fiends across the multiverse to steal relics. Timmothius never actually appeared in the games, so it's open to interpretation if you need an evil thief planeswalker.  | | Evaporation Command | Not much to say here. Nothing is broken, I just feel like it's trying to do too much. That first mode should probably be listed as two modes, so it may need tweaking to get back down to four total modes and keep the "command" structure. | | An-Havva Militia | This design, thanks to its simplicity, is probably your most solid one. The only possible complaints against it are the Army creature type and the first strike in green, but both are totally justifiable given the context, so those are very minor. It's easily your safest and least inventive design, but it feels like it would be equally printable in 1995 or 2021, and that's a rare feat! This would probably have been a 9 or 10 out of ten, but I'm glad you went with your most interesting design instead. |
Overall, you've shown that you're a very inventive designer with an eye for new and exciting interpretations. Well done! This is the entry that far and away made the most use of modern design tools to show us a character from the Homelands story. We've got a double-faced card that features wither, lifelink, a planeswalker, and an emblem—all things that the designers in 1995 could only dream of. I love the use of wither and Rats; they just feel right for her character. That said, her front side is set up oddly—as written, I can just cast her and then activate her the next turn, even with zero Rats. Her backside only barely remembers the Rat tokens, and her ultimate actively works against it. (Perhaps 'destroy each creature with a -1/-1 counter on it"?) Her emblem is a little underwhelming, since additional copies don't off any additional benefits, and overall she feels underpowered compared to simply running Gaea's Anthem and Damnation. He front side is really where most of her potential is, and I would personally avoid transforming her unless I desperately needed to kill a creature or get lifelink for a turn. I think this is close to forming a really cohesive package with just a few tweaks, however, and I love that it actually shows Ravi as a planeswalker and shows her wiping life off the plane. And hey—it's already been mentioned, but underpowered cards were kind of a hallmark of Homelands!  8/10There we have it, folks, the numbers are in! The Final Judgment? sdfkjgh is our winner! I look forward to seeing the next Set Theme!  |
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Post by hydraheadhunter on Nov 9, 2021 15:07:23 GMT
Deep-Sea Troll The first wrinkle here is that if it ever gets -1/-1, it'll try to die but be regenerated instead—but it will still have zero toughness, and immediately try to die again, and get regenerated again, etc.
Per 614.5 "A replacement effect doesn't invoke itself repeatedly; it gets only one opprotunity to affect an event or any modifed events that may replace that event." As Deep-sea's troll's ability is a replacement effect, it gets one chance each instance of dying to try and prevent that from happening, and when that fails, because it still hase zero toughness, it dies proper.
Per 700.4 "The term dies means "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield." Per 701.17a "To sacrifice a permanent, its controller moves it from the battlefield directly to the graveyard. A player can't sacrifice something that isn't a permanent, or something that's a permanent they don't control. Sacrificing a permanent doesn't destroy it, so regeneration or other effects that replace destruction can't affect this action." While at first blush this doesn't look good for Deep-see troll functioning as intended, it does actually work. The first thing to note is that you can sacrifice Deep-sea Troll: It can be put into the graveyard from play as is required to sacrifice it. But, what about keeping it around after the sacrifice. Whell, if we look at MRC rule 701.17a again, we'll see this gem: "Sacrificing a permanent doesn't destroy it, so regeneration or other effects that replace destruction." You might note Deep-Sea Troll ability isn't a destruction replacement effect, but a death replacement effect. This means that when the sacrifice happens, you pay the cost of putting the permanent in the graveyard, and as you do the replacement effect says, okay you sacrificed it but instead of putting this in the graveyard we're gonna regenerate it. The sacrifice has been satisfied and Deep-Sea Troll is still around when the dust is settled.
In conclusion, I think Deep-Sea Troll functions as intended with the current wording. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Nov 9, 2021 21:37:54 GMT
Let's go with a positively benthic cut: Bogavhati! Now, there are two ways you can go with this. 1) Something that feels like it'd fit right in to the set that would eventually become Tempest. 2) Same as 1, but with poison!
I'm hoping some of you pick 1 & some pick 2, just so I can see a lil' o' both. Each of you can do both if you wish, but there will be no extra points for doing so.
You have one week. |
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Post by Tesagk on Nov 10, 2021 13:20:07 GMT
Let's go with a positively benthic cut: Bogavhati! Now, there are two ways you can go with this. 1) Something that feels like it'd fit right in to the set that would eventually become Tempest. 2) Same as 1, but with poison!
I'm hoping some of you pick 1 & some pick 2, just so I can see a lil' o' both. Each of you can do both if you wish, but there will be no extra points for doing so.
You have one week. Huh, that's quite the challenge. |
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Post by viriss on Nov 11, 2021 0:09:10 GMT
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Post by Tesagk on Nov 12, 2021 17:23:23 GMT
I decided to investigate the origins of Bogavhati! and discovered Licids. Which, while I've been around Magic since around the time of the article, definitely predates me in the game. I sort of liked combining Mike's and Mark's ideas for Licids. Not sure if the idea really bears out for a whole creature type though, but... here's my entry.  Licid of Life  (W) Creature - Licid  (Common) Lifelink  (1)(W), (T): Exile Licid of Life and then return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner’s control, tapped. Life, sweet, sweet life. You’re all in too much a rush to live it. You should be enjoying it.1/1 // Life's Caress (1)(W) Enchantment - Licid Aura (Common) Enchant creature Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and has lifelink. (W), (T): Exile Life’s Caress and then return it to the battlefield transformed under its owner’s control, tapped. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Nov 12, 2021 17:25:38 GMT
elRekko: Good job on recreating the templating of the time, and although harold mcneill is a period-appropriate choice for illustration, we still don't take kindly to him 'round these parts, what with him being an actual neonazi.
I won't hold your ignorance against you, as the image used is very tame (considering some of his other works), but do better next time. |
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elRekko
0/0 Germ
Posts: 12
Favorite Set: Guilds of Ravnica
Color Alignment: Blue, Red
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Post by elRekko on Nov 14, 2021 21:09:34 GMT
elRekko : Good job on recreating the templating of the time, and although harold mcneill is a period-appropriate choice for illustration, we still don't take kindly to him 'round these parts, what with him being an actual neonazi.
I won't hold your ignorance against you, as the image used is very tame (considering some of his other works), but do better next time. I want to apologize for my ignorance. I didn't know about that. I didn't put so much effort in the render I simply googled for some of the artists of Tempest set. I'm totally against this kind of political movements.I'm deleting the entry. |
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Nov 14, 2021 23:07:53 GMT
elRekko : Good job on recreating the templating of the time, and although harold mcneill is a period-appropriate choice for illustration, we still don't take kindly to him 'round these parts, what with him being an actual neonazi.
I won't hold your ignorance against you, as the image used is very tame (considering some of his other works), but do better next time. I want to apologize for my ignorance. I didn't know about that. I didn't put so much effort in the render I simply googled for some of the artists of Tempest set. I'm totally against this kind of political movements.I'm deleting the entry. If you want you could repost the card as just text or with different art. I didn't look too closely at it but I didn't see anything offensive about it besides the artist/art in question. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Nov 15, 2021 19:59:10 GMT
I want to apologize for my ignorance. I didn't know about that. I didn't put so much effort in the render I simply googled for some of the artists of Tempest set. I'm totally against this kind of political movements.I'm deleting the entry. If you want you could repost the card as just text or with different art. I didn't look too closely at it but I didn't see anything offensive about it besides the artist/art in question. What he said. Entry's fine, you could just use different art.
This actually brings up an important discussion about separating an artist's work from the artist, especially relevant in the #MeToo era (also see Eric Clapton's self-implosion). My dad raised me on both Clapton and bill cosby albums, and I still find myself referencing both to this very day. Both of their behavior has only served to torpedo, depth charge, and Bikini Atoll their former reputations, such that many find themselves unable to enjoy their artistic brilliance anymore, unable to separate the nostalgic joy they once felt from their knowledge of the misdeeds' tainting and despoiling of their former heroes' kaolin hoofers.
Unfortunately, this also cuts the opposite way, with some people insisting that no matter how horrible, horrendous, and heinous the artist's views/deeds, they should still be allowed to continue on as if nothing happened. See the attempts to rehab louis c. k. I've also heard of a few Magic conventions after harold mcneill's neonazi proclivities were made public where he was still allowed as a guest artist, or his diehard fans insisted that he be allowed to be a guest artist, and he blew his shot by mouthing off his fascist politics so much that security had to ask him to leave.
If we judge harold mcneill's nonracist works solely on their own artistic merit, we find that he's actually a genuinely good artist, with one of the most unique and easily-recognizable styles anywhere. Just look at Knight of the Mists or his Fog, two of his greatest works for Magic, and perfectly encapsulate the feel of nebulous precipitation suspended in air in a supersaturation, if you'll excuse the hardcore meteorology. His unique style is a huge part of why his diehard fans are so adamant in their attempts at rehabilitation, that and the rose-tints of nostalgia for a pre-CG artstyle. The thing of it is, though, that yes, his style's unique among the Magic canon, but if we look at all of his illustrations together, there's a distinct amount of self-homogenization, especially among Caverns of Despair, the Circles of Protection, Death Ward, Errant Minion, Forgotten Lore, Nether Void, and Ray of Command. There was even a bit of a stink at the time with how the Circles looks so alike, it was very hard to tell which was which, especially under the bright lights of the tournament scene.
Now that my chest feels 10 lbs. lighter, I'd just like to reiterate that your design was fine, the art was tame enough to be acceptable, and you still have one day to resubmit your entry with new or same art, elRekko. I'm guessing you haven't been playing for over two decades like I have (#OldManMagic), so you would've had no way of knowing about this strange corner of Magic's history. Again, I don't hold your ignorance against you, and am always happy to be someone's White Rabbit. Now you know--
Ral & Teferi: Please, for the love of god, don't bring up the old cliché!
And knowing is 997/1994 the battle!
Ral & Teferi: GODDAMNIT!!!
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Post by sdfkjgh on Nov 17, 2021 1:46:33 GMT
Since there are now only two entries, I'm gonna extend the contest another week. I hope in that time elRekko reposts his entry, as I remember it being pretty good, even if I can't quite remember exactly what it was. Remind me, dammit! It doen't have to have the same art. |
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elRekko
0/0 Germ
Posts: 12
Favorite Set: Guilds of Ravnica
Color Alignment: Blue, Red
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Post by elRekko on Nov 17, 2021 8:33:39 GMT
Hi there, Excuse me, I was out of home this weekend. Here it is the updated Thalakos Mirror with the new art.  I tried to recreate the templating the best I could. Regards, |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Dec 1, 2021 21:03:23 GMT
Me to my stupid, forgetful brain: You're supposed to be in charge of remembering these things!
My brain: There's your first mistake!
viriss: An interesting idea, and one that's VERY fitting for the prompt, I just wish the number of poison counters was higher (say, five or six) to really drive home the point of its limited utility. As a side note, have you ever seen Owning Mahowny?
Tesagk: An interesting way to sort of fix Licids, or at least simplify them. You forgot to add Tribal to the Aura's typeline, but that's a minor oversight. Even without combat damage on the stack, this is kind of a nightmare to deal with, but that's more inherent to the original design. I guess I should judge you solely on your improved execution, and on that front, you get very high marks indeed.
elRekko: And we come to the one with the one that sparked the greatest amount of discussion. We've already been over all that, so I'll stick to the design, which is actually quite easily imagined as already being in Tempest, right down to the period-appropriate templating.
Honestly, you all gave me such excellent designs, and I hate to cop out with a three-way tie after all this time. viriss is the only one who stayed the closest to the prompt of Bogavhati's poison theme, but I promised errbody I wouldn't penalize anyone who didn't choose to use poison.
In the end, I'ma give it to elRekko, because of the discussion spawned. viriss, Tesagk, know that you're both tied for 2nd by an RCH. |
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Post by viriss on Dec 1, 2021 21:13:19 GMT
Me to my stupid, forgetful brain: You're supposed to be in charge of remembering these things!
My brain: There's your first mistake!
viriss: An interesting idea, and one that's VERY fitting for the prompt, I just wish the number of poison counters was higher (say, five or six) to really drive home the point of its limited utility. As a side note, have you ever seen Owning Mahowny?
Tesagk: An interesting way to sort of fix Licids, or at least simplify them. You forgot to add Tribal to the Aura's typeline, but that's a minor oversight. Even without combat damage on the stack, this is kind of a nightmare to deal with, but that's more inherent to the original design. I guess I should judge you solely on your improved execution, and on that front, you get very high marks indeed.
elRekko: And we come to the one with the one that sparked the greatest amount of discussion. We've already been over all that, so I'll stick to the design, which is actually quite easily imagined as already being in Tempest, right down to the period-appropriate templating.
Honestly, you all gave me such excellent designs, and I hate to cop out with a three-way tie after all this time. viriss is the only one who stayed the closest to the prompt of Bogavhati's poison theme, but I promised errbody I wouldn't penalize anyone who didn't choose to use poison.
In the end, I'ma give it to elRekko, because of the discussion spawned. viriss, Tesagk, know that you're both tied for 2nd by an RCH. Yeah, I debated a higher poison cost but then you can only cast the spell once per game... So I went with twice per game. Never heard of that movie but it's on my list now. |
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Post by Tesagk on Dec 16, 2021 13:54:09 GMT
In the end, I'ma give it to elRekko , because of the discussion spawned.
Helpful reminder to elRekko. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Dec 20, 2021 22:14:48 GMT
In the end, I'ma give it to elRekko , because of the discussion spawned.
Helpful reminder to elRekko . I'ma give elRekko 2 more days to claim their victory. If they don't by the 23rd, it'll default to Tesagk and viriss to decide amongst themselves who'll post the next Challenge. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Dec 24, 2021 19:05:08 GMT
Tesagk, viriss: Ok, it's up to you guys to decide who posts the next Challenge. |
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Post by Tesagk on Dec 30, 2021 11:36:56 GMT
Tesagk , viriss : Ok, it's up to you guys to decide who posts the next Challenge. If viriss doesn't by the 1st, I'll go ahead and throw one up. |
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Post by Tesagk on Jan 3, 2022 1:32:44 GMT
Alright, let's go with... Mirrodin!
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jan 3, 2022 20:10:51 GMT
MaRo help me, 'cause I couldn't help myself:
Myr Trifle Artifact Creature--Myr  Myr Trifle can’t be blocked. ------------------------------------------ The smallest things can be the biggest threats. 0/1 |
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Post by vizionarius on Jan 7, 2022 10:26:15 GMT
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Post by Flo00 on Jan 7, 2022 14:50:28 GMT
I tried to capture as much Mirrodin as possible in one card in a way that hopefully still feels like it could be in the set. Duplicant’s Dagger  Artifact - Equipment  Affinity for artifacts (This spell costs less to cast for each artifact you control.)
Imprint — When Duplicant’s Dagger enters the battlefield, you may exile target nontoken creature. Equipped creature gets +X/+0, where X is the exiled card’s power. Equip  I think this would also work if you exile a vehicle. A noncreature object not on the battlefield has power or toughness only if it has a power and toughness printed on it. |
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Post by Tesagk on Jan 11, 2022 11:11:55 GMT
Closing on the 13th
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Post by Tesagk on Jan 15, 2022 11:50:53 GMT
sdfkjgh: The pun is great. The card isn't awful either, given how strong Myr tribal is. Though, at uncommon, one would almost sort of hope it would contribute to the tribal in some way. Obviously it can't give other Myr unblockable though, so I'm rather stuck on that point, but the bottom-line is that it's a solid card. vizionarius: I like it. It's rather simple, perhaps a bit overcosted, but that's rather normal when you have an option to get more out of said card than usual. Flo00: It does feel pretty close to capturing Mirrodin in one card. Though I would say it doesn't truly do that in entirety. It's a fun concept though and it had me thinking over various possibilities, which is definitely the hallmark of a creative card. And the winner is... {Winner} Flo00! It could have easily been the simpler card in vizionarius' little spell or even sdfkjgh's cheeky trifle, but I ended up going for the wow factor with a card that one assumes could make for a cool combo with something. vizionarius is runner-up. 
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Post by Flo00 on Jan 16, 2022 7:25:14 GMT
Thanks for the win Tesagk!
Next challenge: Choose any set set on Ravnica and make an Alchemy card for it. That is, a card that can only work in digital.
If you make a spellbook, it can only contain existing cards from the set you choose.
I hope this challenge is still in the spirit of the game, since technically I'm creating an imaginary/alternate time line set here.
Side note: I don't play arena at all. Weird, huh?
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jan 16, 2022 15:35:39 GMT
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Post by Flo00 on Jan 16, 2022 15:46:25 GMT
Should have known this question comes up. I asked for digital only. If you can tweak a card in a way that afterwards it only works in digital, then yes. Though I doubt that's a good idea. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jan 17, 2022 20:20:53 GMT
Should have known this question comes up. I asked for digital only. If you can tweak a card in a way that afterwards it only works in digital, then yes. Though I doubt that's a good idea. Bingo bango:
Cry of Contrition Sorcery Target player discard a card. Haunt (Target creature perpetually gains "When this creature dies, target player discards a card.")
Blind Hunter Creature--Bat Flying When ~ enters the battlefield, target player loses 2 life and you gain 2 life. Haunt (When this creature dies, target creature perpetually gains "When this creature dies, target player loses 2 life and you gain 2 life.) 2/2
I've just solved for haunt. Do you want me to do the other nine, or have you seen enough?
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Post by Flo00 on Jan 18, 2022 11:46:05 GMT
I've just solved for haunt. Do you want me to do the other nine, or have you seen enough? You have my attention. |
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Post by hydraheadhunter on Jan 20, 2022 11:58:07 GMT
I've just solved for haunt.
I'dm pretty readily argue that this change would make it worse for game play. Yeah it's more grockable especially since the computer's the one tracking the grock, but it doesn't have the diminishing returns inherently built into the original mechanic meaning the same card can be used to haunt several times, and because it's perpetual (assuming I understand perpetuity, I don't play online magic because I ain't giving wizards munny for virtual cardboard), you can get the haunting trigger of as many times as you like. Haunt an endless cockroaches and suddenly you've a problem ain't nobody prepared to deal wit. |
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