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Post by Tesagk on Oct 10, 2018 10:49:40 GMT
Based on God-Pharaoh's Faithful's approach to 4-colour, but on a creature that's a bit bigger. Also clearly not a Ravnican Nephilim. I cannot se the card image/render, please enclose the URL in image tags. There is a button for it in the toolbar if you don't know how to do it manually.  |
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Icarael
0/0 Germ
Don't call it a comeback-- I've been here for years!
Posts: 33 
Favorite Card: Coiling Oracle
Favorite Set: Ravnica: City of Guilds
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Red
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Post by Icarael on Oct 10, 2018 15:46:19 GMT
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Post by gateways7 on Oct 10, 2018 23:50:58 GMT
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Post by Tesagk on Oct 11, 2018 10:48:39 GMT
As for your card, it does a lot of wierd stuff, wich is very Nephilim like, but make sure it doesn't get too wierd, because then people won't understand how to use it, and it will be a useless rare, and a dissapointment. I don't really know what to look for in a Nephilim, cause they never really made sense, but one thing you should pay attention to, is that 4/4 Flying is very typical Angel (so is the artwork), so maybe you should try tweaking that a bit, to separate it from the Angel creature type. Maybe make it a 5/3 or 3/6 to increase its oddness, idk. Gotta say, I don't usually see angels with quite that many wings, but that's a subjective point, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Normally I do try to respond to critiques with some changes, but, as you mentioned, Nephilim are pretty freaking weird, so I'm not sure where I would go with this without making it blatantly too powerful. Considering I don't usually even receive votes, let alone win these, I'm content to leave this one where it is and look to the next challenge to break out  |
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Mahx Michael
2/2 Zombie
Recently Ressurected
Posts: 100
Favorite Card: Divine Visitation
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Green
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Post by Mahx Michael on Oct 11, 2018 12:41:06 GMT
six-winged angels are reffered to as Seraphs. Magic mixes up this compleatly, though. |
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Post by Tesagk on Oct 11, 2018 17:04:06 GMT
six-winged angels are reffered to as Seraphs. Magic mixes up this compleatly, though. I'm aware, but it's not exceedingly common, and the picture was found in a specific search for Nephilim. |
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Post by gurfafflekins on Oct 11, 2018 17:11:25 GMT
gateways7 This should either just have the normal green border with it’s current ability (as it’s color identity is always all colors and this becomes redunant) or leave the border/identity as is and change it to “Other creatures you control...”, which is more common among newer cards. Wizards is stepping away from lords or creature based effects that include the creature they’re on. You could also argue it has all colors as well as the ability because of “loses all abilities” effects but those are typically something like Polymorphist’s Jest which already overrides color. It’s so niche that I’d eliminate redundancy, personally.
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Post by Jartis on Oct 11, 2018 21:44:56 GMT
Alright. Guess it's time to stop beating around the bush. I tried out several ideas, talked with some friends, and this is what I settled on.  I thought I should share my thoughts on design here. 1. First off, it doesn't require specific mana to cast. Already easier to play, even in sets with restricted mana bases. 2. I still wanted to keep the 4-color feel, so I came up with Faceted. The current way of doing a similar effect is "If  was spent to cast ~, it gains haste," but I'd only ever seen that use up to two color. Try doing that with 4 colors and a long creature name, and you quickly run out of space on the card. Keywording it makes it succinct, and 2.5 allowed me to add in a little added benefit so you still have a reason to run it in mono-color decks. 3. It's modular. You want a 5/5 with Haste, you can do that. A 2/2 with Lifelink, Flying, Menace, and Haste? That's an option too. It may be a bit on the cheesy side, but I find cards that can fit in almost any deck to be almost as fun as cards that you have to design around. 4. The ability isn't so Nephilim-oriented that it can't be used on other creatures down the road. If it didn't add the +1/+1 counters, it could even be used on other spells, but then it loses a bit on point 2.5, so I guess that could go either way. 5. Once Faceted got the the point where you don't need the reminder text, you'd have more room to put interesting effects on the list, and not just use other keywords. At the end of the day, maybe I overthought it. Maybe it's too much, maybe it's too plain. But I'm absolutely willing to hear out any comments on the design in general, because boy, did I put way more thought into this than any other card I've designed thusfar. XD |
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Post by Aarhg on Oct 11, 2018 22:13:44 GMT
Jartis , I've tried doing something similar to this in the past, but ended up scrapping it, because, as you say yourself, the text box gets cramped quickly. I like the solution you came up with though. I could see the +1/+1 counter thing confusing some players. "For each additional mana spent" makes it sound like you can pay more than the four mana the creature costs to pump it up with +1/+1 counters. Maybe something like "For each mana of a color spent beyond the first, ~"? Then there's also the issue of remembering which abilities it entered the battlefield with. The +1/+1 counters help a little with that though, as you could count them an figure it out from there, but it's still not optimal.
I don't think this is an ability that would ever get to the point of not needing reminder text, it's too complex for that. There's definitely some interesting design space here, but it's also pretty restrictive, since there isn't much space on the card, and the ability is complicated enough in itself.
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Post by Jartis on Oct 12, 2018 0:03:45 GMT
Aarhg . I went back and forth on wording for that +1/+1 ability, and still wasn't sure I was satisfied with it. I might try out your suggestion and see how it feels. As for remembering what abilities it entered the battlefield with, I don't really see much of a way around that. I guess the best thing I can figure is that, as Magic players, we probably have a lot of random dice and little trinkets hanging around that could denote such a thing ^^;. It's not the best solution, I'll admit. As for it being too complicated to not need reminder text, well...eventually they stopped putting reminder text on banding. XD And it frees up a lot of space that way. {Example} 
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Post by sdfkjgh on Oct 12, 2018 0:12:39 GMT
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kazerima
0/0 Germ
Posts: 36 
Favorite Set: Future Sight
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by kazerima on Oct 13, 2018 14:22:53 GMT
Nephilim are Angels of the Kabbalah, so I decided to pull inspiration by really making them feel otherworldly. They have a completely different playstyle that encourages you to play by their rules, not your own. The same nephilim of the Kabbala also inspired the "Angels" from Neon Genesis, so the playstyle of this card is designed to reflect that.  |
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Mahx Michael
2/2 Zombie
Recently Ressurected
Posts: 100
Favorite Card: Divine Visitation
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Green
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Post by Mahx Michael on Oct 13, 2018 23:12:22 GMT
Never mind what I said about your Nephilim being to similar to angels. I looked up the lore of Nephilim, and aparently, according to the source material, the are half-Angel, half-Human and tecknickly exactly the same as giants. Well, due to pop-culture, giants now have a compleatly different lore, probably taken from a different mythology or folklore, so they are not exacly the same, but I hope you get my point. Either way it is Magic's take on the Nephilim that is wierd, not your entry. Sorry for creating confusion, I should have checked the sources first.
What kazerima said is also true. The "Angels" of Evangelion is also technicly Nephilim. Evangelion is acid-trip, though...
I have now added a render to my entry. |
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Post by Tesagk on Oct 13, 2018 23:58:15 GMT
Never mind what I said about your Nephilim being to similar to angels. I looked up the lore of Nephilim, and aparently, according to the source material, the are half-Angel, half-Human and tecknickly exactly the same as giants. Well, due to pop-culture, giants now have a compleatly different lore, probably taken from a different mythology or folklore, so they are not exacly the same, but I hope you get my point. Either way it is Magic's take on the Nephilim that is wierd, not your entry. Sorry for creating confusion, I should have checked the sources first.
What kazerima said is also true. The "Angels" of Evangelion is also technicly Nephilim. Evangelion is acid-trip, though...
I have now added a render to my entry. They are, depending on the source. Sometimes they're angel-demon hybrids. I'm not sure what Magic was going for, but I figured anything odd or unusual or otherwise not fitting in Ravnica would work. Admittedly, I went for a more human-looking thing, but I figured the six wings made it different enough. |
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Post by Daij_Djan on Oct 15, 2018 11:49:22 GMT
This thread is now closed, the poll can be found here. And here's the next challenge! |
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instead of 
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"When in doubt, do a common."