jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Jun 8, 2018 15:19:51 GMT
Greetings, all. First time posting on here, though I've been using MSE for years to slowly (very slowly) make my set. This thread is just to get some thoughts on the new keywords I've created for it. Thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. Please, be gentle. First up, is Individuality. Reminder text is "There can only be one copy of this card in the Battlefield or in a graveyard at any time. If there is more then one copy in the Battlefield or in a graveyard, exile all copies from the game." Basically, its a more restrictive form of Legendary.
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jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Jun 8, 2018 19:27:11 GMT
Its only seen on a few cards, that are very powerful, and have effects that occur when in the Graveyard. My friend, who is helping me with it, thought that it might be too powerful having one in play and in the yard. Thus, Individuality.
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jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Jun 8, 2018 21:26:41 GMT
Here are a couple examples of this keyword. These are the abilities of two creatures that also have Individuality.
1> Creatures you control gain "T: Draw up to X cards, where X equals this creature's power. Then discard cards equal to its toughness." When ~ is in your graveyard, whenever a player would draw cards for any reason other then their draw phase or a spell or ability you control, you may draw those cards instead.
2> Flying All creatures you control gain, "When this creature deals damage to a player, you may draw a card." When ~ goes to the graveyard, shuffle your graveyard into your library.
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Post by voltaic-qui on Jun 8, 2018 22:24:04 GMT
Here are a couple examples of this keyword. These are the abilities of two creatures that also have Individuality. 1> Creatures you control gain "T: Draw up to X cards, where X equals this creature's power. Then discard cards equal to its toughness." When ~ is in your graveyard, whenever a player would draw cards for any reason other then their draw phase or a spell or ability you control, you may draw those cards instead. 2> Flying All creatures you control gain, "When this creature deals damage to a player, you may draw a card." When ~ goes to the graveyard, shuffle your graveyard into your library. Right, so I think you're going about this the wrong way. The fix here isn't to make an even more legendary version of legendary; the fix is to make the graveyard abilities less powerful. See Wonder, the granddaddy of "has a passive effect in your graveyard" cards-- that requires you to control an Island, so that you have to be playing blue for the card to work. Wonder is also redundant-- it grants itself an ability it already has, and if you have multiples in the graveyard it doesn't stack. Notably, I'm not sure that being able to have one on the battlefield and one in the grave is the powerful thing about the first card-- it's that the ability is just casually very powerful. Notion Thief costs four mana to stick that ability on an incredibly fragile body. (An aside: I don't know why individuality is even on that second card, when its ability means there'll never be one in your graveyard in the first place.)
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jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Jun 8, 2018 23:25:52 GMT
Sorry, the 2nd one had old wording on it. The graveyard bit has since been changed to when the card goes to the yard from play.
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ruien
0/0 Germ
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Favorite Set: Eldritch Moon
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Post by ruien on Jun 9, 2018 2:50:38 GMT
Maybe it's just me, but I rather like this concept of "more restrictive version of Legendary". It seems like it would go well with Flashback - for instance, giving a card a difficult or narrow Flashback, but an accessible primary cost. You're sort of locked out of playing the card until you're able to flashback the one in the graveyard to get rid of it.
I think of things from a Limited perspective. The hard part is making the whole package just good or synergistic enough to encourage running more than one copy, while still making the card accessible enough to actually get more than one copy. Even at Uncommon it might be too hard to pick up two or more copies, which puts this card almost unflinchingly at Common. A more-restrictive-than-legendary common is definitely unusual design space.
That said, for the actual specific situation at hand, I think voltaic-qui's advice is on the right track.
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SirnightNano
1/1 Squirrel
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Post by SirnightNano on Jun 9, 2018 12:57:38 GMT
The design space for "more legendary than legendary" shouldn't appear on commons. Commons are Limited's workhorse cards, so a mechanic that outright prevents you from playing your commons defeats the point of them even being common in the first place. More restricted cards also don't feel good for players to open, since anything after the first one feels like a wasted opportunity to get something else.
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oddnanref
3/3 Beast
Am I squirrel yet?
Posts: 198
Formerly Known As: Destiny, or full of yourself
Favorite Card: The one that is red and white all over
Favorite Set: The one with the new cool things
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Red
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Post by oddnanref on Jun 9, 2018 13:19:38 GMT
I have to say first I read this I was confused. I have to admit, I posted the Mythical supertype for a contest. Which is legendary for teams. However, that was just an extension of the legendary supertype into team play. Here we have individuality. Which is an extension of the legendary supertype with the old ruling it had. Let me list the problems legendary had with the oldest ruling: - It's an all downside mechanic. Sure the other abilities the card has may make the individual card awesome, but the mechanic itself is all downside. Now, legendaries are awesome enough generally that people forget how bad the mechanic feels, but take the old Legend set or the Kamigawa set with legends. Some of them were not good and felt underwhelming or plain bad. Specially if the card was vanilla.
- It creates dead draws. Which this time it is even deader draws. Sure you get an effect when it is in the graveyard, but now you just limited your design space. Cards with Individuality cannot have in battlefield effects that are too different from the effects they have on the graveyard. Otherwise you might get situations where you want one effect but cannot have it because you have the creature in the grave.
- Leads to infinity game play. Now not only you cannot have any effects if you play the card. You cannot have any effects if your opponent play the card. Which leads to:
- Encourages people to play them as answers. So, you have no way to deal with the effect a powerfully individuality creature? You can play a small mill effect and include the card. As soon as it hits your graveyard you deal with the creature on the battlefield. I mean people will be playing Individuality cards to answer individuality cards. Not because their decks want it to further their plans. This means the cards cannot be too powerful. Then why have them be Individuality cards?
I mean, legendary rule has changed so several of these do not apply to the legendary rule, but they now apply to your Individuality rule. Finally, Individuality rule brings conflicting flavor. Similar problem to my mythical supertype. We already have a rule to represent individuals and that is legendary. You might have to find another way to name it.
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jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Jun 11, 2018 15:01:29 GMT
The design space for "more legendary than legendary" shouldn't appear on commons. Commons are Limited's workhorse cards, so a mechanic that outright prevents you from playing your commons defeats the point of them even being common in the first place. More restricted cards also don't feel good for players to open, since anything after the first one feels like a wasted opportunity to get something else. Oh, Individuality only appears on 14 cards, all of which are Mythic. They are, in the setting, the spirits of the Virtues and Vices (Sloth, Greed, Justice, Charity, etc). So, there will NEVER be an Individuality common card.
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jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Jun 12, 2018 1:32:44 GMT
Ok all. I need some help with the coding for a different new Keyword. The Keyword is Resurgence. The reminder text for it, as of now, is the rather clunky "When this creature is put into the graveyard from the Battlefield, do the following." I have Additional Rules in the Keyword tab saying "Resurgence — [effect] when CARDNAME goes to the graveyard from the Battlefield." How do I code it so that the Additional Rules is what shows for the actual text of the card?
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oddnanref
3/3 Beast
Am I squirrel yet?
Posts: 198
Formerly Known As: Destiny, or full of yourself
Favorite Card: The one that is red and white all over
Favorite Set: The one with the new cool things
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Red
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Post by oddnanref on Jun 12, 2018 2:10:07 GMT
FYI: "Creature goes into the graveyard from the battlefield" = "Creature dies"
I think this will help with the amount of text you write.
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jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Jun 12, 2018 2:51:00 GMT
FYI: "Creature goes into the graveyard from the battlefield" = "Creature dies" I think this will help with the amount of text you write. Ya know, that's what I get for not checking new verbage for something I made years ago. Much appreciated.
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