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Post by sdfkjgh on May 20, 2021 18:06:15 GMT
Going live in 5
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3, cue theme music
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Hello, and welcome once again to The MageLaughlin Group. With me is my esteemed panel, Daij_Djan , ZephyrPhantom , foureyesisafish , ArkiThe7th , and dangerousdice , and we're coming to you live from a Luxury Suite on Kylem? Wow. This place is actually pretty nice. We should kick our feet up and enjoy it. Our regular locations are usually pretty horrible, full of certain death, but this is nice. I feel like I can relax here, let my guard down.
Anyway, out first question comes from ZephyrPhantom : What does your ideal format look like, and how would you convince someone it has a healthy variety of decks to play? (Answering with an existing format is fine.)
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ArkiThe7th
1/1 Squirrel
Any plant is edible if you’re not a coward.
Posts: 82
Favorite Card: Wee Dragonauts
Favorite Set: Pauper Masters (wait a second...)
Color Alignment: Blue, Red
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Post by ArkiThe7th on May 21, 2021 11:25:49 GMT
Alright, so Pauper is about as close as you can get to my ideal format. It’s cheap, easy to get into, balanced, and has a lot of different possible decks. It also hasn’t drawn the eye of WotC yet, meaning it hasn’t gotten over bloated like commander has recently. With such a wide selection of cards, there’s tons of different possible decks and almost every traditional style is viable (control, aggro, midrange). I feel like every time I look through Scryfall, I find a new, unique common that I could build around. And what’s great is that those decks are viable. I tried so hard to make New Horizons work in Amonkhet standard, but it just wouldn’t because a few three or four deck dominated the format. While I can’t play New Horizons in Pauper, I definitely can play other janky weird stuff and still do well. Pauper has so many possible decks that everyone can find something they enjoy playing and almost every deck is under $60! I could go on, but I don’t want to spend too much time gushing over this format. WotC might catch on and print a bunch of pushed commons that dominate the meta.
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foureyesisafish
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 388
Favorite Set: Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
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Post by foureyesisafish on May 21, 2021 11:53:14 GMT
Alright, feel free to murder me to hell and back for this, but my favorite hypothetical format would be a casual, 100 card, no-singleton commander format. In my opinion, commander has a bunch of interesting deck options for two main reasons: commander options and the limitations of color identity. Because you can pick practically any legendary creature or the occasional planeswalker as a commander, there are countless possible deck options building around various commanders. In addition, the color identity limitations really push creativity to its limits.
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Post by sdfkjgh on May 21, 2021 14:02:43 GMT
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ArkiThe7th
1/1 Squirrel
Any plant is edible if you’re not a coward.
Posts: 82
Favorite Card: Wee Dragonauts
Favorite Set: Pauper Masters (wait a second...)
Color Alignment: Blue, Red
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Post by ArkiThe7th on May 21, 2021 23:08:46 GMT
Alright, feel free to murder me to hell and back for this, but my favorite hypothetical format would be a casual, 100 card, no-singleton commander format. In my opinion, commander has a bunch of interesting deck options for two main reasons: commander options and the limitations of color identity. Because you can pick practically any legendary creature or the occasional planeswalker as a commander, there are countless possible deck options building around various commanders. In addition, the color identity limitations really push creativity to its limits. I don’t know about non-singleton... Unless you ban/restrict hundreds of cards, you’re just gonna see Sol Rings, Demonic Tutors, and Wraths flying everywhere. It would be an incredibly fast format because your deck would be 4 times as consistent. The competitive scene would need constant banning in order to not be dominated by turn 1 wins. No offense towards you, I just don’t think it would be very balanced.
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on May 22, 2021 2:37:47 GMT
Alright, feel free to murder me to hell and back for this, but my favorite hypothetical format would be a casual, 100 card, no-singleton commander format. In my opinion, commander has a bunch of interesting deck options for two main reasons: commander options and the limitations of color identity. Because you can pick practically any legendary creature or the occasional planeswalker as a commander, there are countless possible deck options building around various commanders. In addition, the color identity limitations really push creativity to its limits. I don’t know about non-singleton... Unless you ban/restrict hundreds of cards, you’re just gonna see Sol Rings, Demonic Tutors, and Wraths flying everywhere. It would be an incredibly fast format because your deck would be 4 times as consistent. The competitive scene would need constant banning in order to not be dominated by turn 1 wins. No offense towards you, I just don’t think it would be very balanced. Worth noting turn 1 wins are already entirely possible in EDH, bans just limit how reliable they are as they often require a very specific hand. (This was one of the big reasons Flash was banned due to Flash Hulk being very common in cEDH despite not really doing much in regular EDH.) While a lot of the cards you listed are useful I still think most games would need a turn to sculpt a combo-heavy hand and there's always the ever present Force of Will looming over it all. EDH when pushed to cEDH levels doesn't seem that different from Vintage (speaking based on very general observations, mind) in terms of high complexity play per turn but few turn games, so I don't think removing the singleton changes that much. I think sdfkjgh makes a good point that what fish is proposing is actually not that dissimilar to just playing with a companion, though. It's interesting to me because it seems like color identity is being pitched here as a way to breed creativity with restrictions, but in a way that's what colors naturally do in any constructed format because at highest levels of power in any given format each color is still good and bad at specific things. I think it might be even fair to say the color identity restriction in this context would instead highlight how EDH players constantly search for color-breaking effects for commanders with less colors to do everything their more-colored counterparts can do, and how that in turn has led to a rash of cards that push or break the pie like Enchanter's Bane, Feed the Swarm, and Secret Rendezvous being printed now and for the forseeable future to try and meet that demand. I mostly agree with the pitch for Pauper, but I do find it interesting how it's often pitched as a brewer's paradise when there is clearly also a tier of high profile strategies like Boros Monarch that have had their reign in the format here and there.
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ArkiThe7th
1/1 Squirrel
Any plant is edible if you’re not a coward.
Posts: 82
Favorite Card: Wee Dragonauts
Favorite Set: Pauper Masters (wait a second...)
Color Alignment: Blue, Red
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Post by ArkiThe7th on May 22, 2021 6:56:18 GMT
Worth noting turn 1 wins are already entirely possible in EDH, bans just limit how reliable they are as they often require a very specific hand. (This was one of the big reasons Flash was banned due to Flash Hulk being very common in cEDH despite not really doing much in regular EDH.) While a lot of the cards you listed are useful I still think most games would need a turn to sculpt a combo-heavy hand and there's always the ever present Force of Will looming over it all. EDH when pushed to cEDH levels doesn't seem that different from Vintage (speaking based on very general observations, mind) in terms of high complexity play per turn but few turn games, so I don't think removing the singleton changes that much. I think sdfkjgh makes a good point that what fish is proposing is actually not that dissimilar to just playing with a companion, though. It's interesting to me because it seems like color identity is being pitched here as a way to breed creativity with restrictions, but in a way that's what colors naturally do in any constructed format because at highest levels of power in any given format each color is still good and bad at specific things. I think it might be even fair to say the color identity restriction in this context would instead highlight how EDH players constantly search for color-breaking effects for commanders with less colors to do everything their more-colored counterparts can do, and how that in turn has led to a rash of cards that push or break the pie like Enchanter's Bane, Feed the Swarm, and Secret Rendezvous being printed now and for the forseeable future to try and meet that demand. I mostly agree with the pitch for Pauper, but I do find it interesting how it's often pitched as a brewer's paradise when there is clearly also a tier of high profile strategies like Boros Monarch that have had their reign in the format here and there. I understand what you mean about commander. I just worry about what a 4 copy limit would do to a commander-like format. It would be intriguing to test. I wonder if it would function better as a 2 player or 4 player format. I definitely agree with the color restriction fear. As for Pauper, like any format, there’s definitely dominating strategies, but I find that they still leave space for others. Since everything is the same rarity, you don’t run into pushed mythics or broken planeswalkers like you would in other formats. Every card is roughly on the same playing field.
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Post by Daij_Djan on May 23, 2021 14:18:19 GMT
Hi everyone, nice to see you all once more – especially in a place like this.. I'll offer myself a drink, thank you.. Concerning our first question, I don't think I have that much to add that hasn't been said already. I also like formats that allow for a wider variety of decks – obviously there'll always be a Tier 1, but they shouldn't be too oppresive imho. Also I prefer formats being not too fast – as much as I like aggro and combo, if matches continuesly end on turn 2 or 3 things get boring pretty fast.. Alright, so Pauper is about as close as you can get to my ideal format. It’s cheap, easy to get into, balanced, and has a lot of different possible decks. It also hasn’t drawn the eye of WotC yet, meaning it hasn’t gotten over bloated like commander has recently. Funnily enough, I completely agree with this statement. As I'm pretty sure I already mentioned (at least^^) once in the past, I've taught MtG to my son and Pauper is the format we've currently settled on playing. Being cheap is a big deal (let's be real here: he's twelve, so even if I do consider him being rather responsible for his age – there are limits to the amount of money I want to literally put into his hands), being diverse is as well. Oddly enough, more competitive players (as far as I've heard) actually often complain about Pauper for having some serious issues – but seeing as we only play against each other with our own decks (and those aren't always fully powered as well to keep their powerlevel as close to one another as possible), we never have experienced any of these. On a sidenote, we also don't use sideboards. I know some think playing without one is stupid, but wishboards aside I don't think I've ever played a game using one – in my mind, your basic deck should be able to handle whatever your opponent throws at you. Alright, feel free to murder me to hell and back for this, but my favorite hypothetical format would be a casual, 100 card, no-singleton commander format. So basically Commander with less variance? Personally, I don't think it'll differ that much from the normal format, except it might make some strategies work that currently don't have enough support? Think like some more rare tribal strategy or the „stop hitting yourself“ deck the guys from The Command Zone sometimes talk about..
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foureyesisafish
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 388
Favorite Set: Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
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Post by foureyesisafish on May 25, 2021 15:57:53 GMT
We got more MH2 previews, so... what is the panel's thoughts on planeswalker creatures and changing types outside the battlefield (Grist tech)?
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Post by sdfkjgh on May 25, 2021 17:37:10 GMT
foureyesisafish: Dude, not cool. 1) We're still in the process of discussing the first question; 2) As the host, it's my duty to ask the questions; & 3) The proper protocol is to submit questions for approval beforehand during the downtime discussions.
dangerousdice, we're still waiting on your ideas for your perfect format.
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Post by dangerousdice on May 27, 2021 0:39:57 GMT
I think 60-card casual's a pretty good format. I have a mardu sacrifice/death triggers deck thats pretty fun to play! not much other commentary there though...
also. hi!
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Post by sdfkjgh on May 27, 2021 17:54:50 GMT
So, I was taught how to play Magic by my high school Gym teacher, at North Hills Prep (that location, no longer in use, is near the intersection of Sepulveda and Plummer). He had a couple of absolute piles1, but from such humble beginnings, I was still hooked. I bought a few packs, one each of the Apocalypse precons, some Odyssey stuff (including Repentant Vampire, and a fellow student's entire binder2 for $20. From this, I built my own pile, even worse than my teacher's, that could ONLY work if it was able to cast that singleton Pulse of Llanowar. I think that pile was almost 100 cards. I had no idea what I was doing.
We played 60-card multiplayer (except for my pile) during recess and lunch, on aggregate tables, with no sleeves, no playmats, and no idea how much that'd hurt to say all these years later. Someone actually stole my godawful pile.
When I moved on to Valley College, it was much the same, only this time, I was staring out with something more approaching an actual deck. It was a Grixis (before we even had the name for it) deck based around a few Honden of the appropriate colors, Megrim, Underworld Dreams, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, some squids, a singleton copy of Intruder Alarm, and NO nonbasics!
Since then, I've learned from my mistakes and built actual decks, but I keep yearning for 60-card multiplayer. It's everything that I most love about the game, and it doesn't hurt that control is usually severely weakened against multiple opponents, whereas midrange is what best thrives.
The way I'd convince someone that the format is healthily diverse is to tell them that it's whatever you bring to it (like the tree/cave in Dagobah). If you bring your asshole Spike deck, then nobody's gonna have any fun, but if you embrace the format and your inner Social Gamer Timmy/Tammy, then EVERYONE will have a great time, no matter who wins.
Our next question comes from dangerousdice: What is the panel's opinion on universes beyond, and (optional) what show or movie would you want to appear the most?
1I hesitate to call them decks, as they had no synergy, no plan, just a bunch of cards from Urza and Masques blocks, like Endless Wurm (and very few enchantments) in one deck, andDiabolic Servitude, Infernal Genesis, and Mind Swords (and not enough knowledge on how the game works in order to use any of them properly) in the other.
2Mostly chaff, but it did have Pulse of Llanowar. This is what passed for better options back then. It also had a couple of Sterling Grove. [/spoiler][/p]
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on May 28, 2021 3:24:03 GMT
Since then, I've learned from my mistakes and built actual decks, but I keep yearning for 60-card multiplayer. It's everything that I most love about the game, and it doesn't hurt that control is usually severely weakened against multiple opponents, whereas midrange is what best thrives. The way I'd convince someone that the format is healthily diverse is to tell them that it's whatever you bring to it (like the tree/cave in Dagobah). If you bring your asshole Spike deck, then nobody's gonna have any fun, but if you embrace the format and your inner Social Gamer Timmy/Tammy, then EVERYONE will have a great time, no matter who wins. (Page breaks for easier reading) Funnily enough I actually find that particular aspect of multiplayer Magic to be least interesting to me or how I play. Multiplayer play for me has generally always ended up as one of two things when I've experienced such a pitch: 1) The game becomes more about politicking than the cards themselves. This is great if you want to have a more beer-and-pretzels approach to Magic (or you perhaps prefer games like Mafia or Among Us where messing with people is part of the appeal), but I found I liked focusing more on how cards work together, which inevitably trends towards some kind of Spike-like efficiency because as Johnny as you want to sell it as it's pretty easy for that to start dippining into raw efficiency if you want to have cards actually get played as opposed to getting stuck in my hand or mulling down to four and being behind for a good chunk of the game (something that has happened to Jimmy Wong a few times on Game Knights, no less). It becomes a slippery slope where if you show up being too weak, your cards just feel like they're dragging for the rest of the game, and if you show up being too strong, you get bullied off the table and wasted a bunch of deckbuilding time. 2) Someone inevitably decides they can just power through getting teamed up on and adapts a sorry-not-sorry attitude. I remember matchups where I'd try to bring Vanilla Bear tribal and everyone showed up with comparable decks only for one guy to start slapping down OG Duals, Wraths, and Jace the Mind Sculptor and generally just overwhelming much slower decks that couldn't compete. Likewise I remember quite a few EDH matches at another pod where a player was particularly fond of doing things like Turn 1 Trinisphere with Lavinia, Azorius Renegade going into even more lock pieces so they were the only person who could do anything, and their idea of changing decks usually involved whipping out things like infinite storm the like where they could easily win on turn 0 and weren't afraid to do it repeatedly.
In a way, perhaps both points could be described as this: the more you leave it to people to balance the game instead of the cards themselves, the more dependent the game becomes on the goodwill of people involved. Shifting the standard for power to be based on the cards instead of the people involved makes it easier to sit down and play games with people quickly without having to hash out any ill will or do all the power level terminology talk Commander tends to struggle with - if I'm playing Pauper, I don't have any illusions about if someone might or might not rock Dark Ritual into Pestilence for example, but kitchen table or Commander for me has meant anything from "Vampire tribal" to "My idea of fun is killing you on turn 1 knowing you won't have anything good to respond with."
I think it's a mistake to associate being Spikey with inherently being rude and toxic, similar to how easy it is to make the 'evil' color of Magic due to its association with stereotypically evil creatures like Demons and Vampires. Spike may be the player psychographic of trying to win, but it's also very much the player psychographic of general improvement, willingness to study how other people play (this is the real benefit of netdecking - you know how people buy precons to learn to play Magic? Netdecking is essentially the equivalent for a player trying to learn a new complex strategy), and just wanting to minimize those situations where you don't play cards at all and at least get your strategy up and working. To put it another way - is it rude and toxic to cheat a Colossal Dreadmaw onto the field on turn 1 as regularly as possible? Or is it just a player being partially a Spike to make a funny Timmy/Johnny play happen for the fun of the table? Concerning our first question, I don't think I have that much to add that hasn't been said already. I also like formats that allow for a wider variety of decks – obviously there'll always be a Tier 1, but they shouldn't be too oppresive imho. Also I prefer formats being not too fast – as much as I like aggro and combo, if matches continuesly end on turn 2 or 3 things get boring pretty fast.. For similar reasons I find it really interesting that this is generally perceived as a downside among players who want to be more casual. When multiplayer games can take up to 2-3 hours a game, you tend to get really tired of situations where bad eggs show up and waste the session. Shorter games where aggro and fast combo show out to end games by turn 4 prevents things from dragging too much and lets people start the table clean if they want a second go, and it's easier to change decks and tune your power level as the games progress when you have enough time to switch decks mid-session. It's also worth noting that in higher power formats, turns take longer despite games taking less turns overall because a lot of cards can get thrown back and forth between players to make things happen. The easy example is Force of Will but this could be extended to how cheap removal is as a whole as well. Of course this leads into a separate back and forth about whether cheap interaction and aggressive threats is a good thing (I know there was an earlier episode where Arki stated he preferred threats to stick rather than not), but I think it's fair to say it comes down to personal preference. I think WoTC recognized that a good chunk of custom magic users spend at least some part of their time crossing Magic over with other IPs, and (correctly) decided they could hit that audience by introducing their quality level of design (learning to design well takes time, and a lot of crossover/newer designers simply haven't had that time) + cards that are 'canon' and thus don't get the same awkward looks silver border decks might. I think the slippery slope is when you make a card competitively powerful like Rick, Steadfast Leader was and don't make it easy to get. It is possible to make cards only viable in Standard or Commander (mainly by overcosting them), and that it would be in WoTC's best interest to set Deploy the Gatewatch as the power ceiling of crossover cards as opposed to Collected Company, so that choosing to play crossover cards is a mostly casual option that people aren't forced into playing to help enable their other cards. Basically, there is clout in making a card black border and spending the time to carefully balance it, but WoTC needs to guarantee that balance. I'm not sure if I'd particularly want an IP to appear, but if there was one I think would be a sensible pick I would say the Battletech franchise might be a good starting point. WoTC previously made a CCG for it in the 90s that played very similarly to Magic with 5 basic 'resources', tribal matters, and a variety of other things that indicate it would already be fairly easy to port the world of Mechwarrior over to Magic rules. The way I see it, if Warhammer 40k, another popular tabletop franchise with technology-based weapons, is fine, then this is pretty much the same deal but with more preexisting foundations already in place.
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Post by Daij_Djan on May 28, 2021 20:04:46 GMT
I think it's a mistake to associate being Spikey with inherently being rude and toxic, similar to how easy it is to make the 'evil' color of Magic due to its association with stereotypically evil creatures like Demons and Vampires. Spike may be the player psychographic of trying to win, but it's also very much the player psychographic of general improvement, willingness to study how other people play (this is the real benefit of netdecking - you know how people buy precons to learn to play Magic? Netdecking is essentially the equivalent for a player trying to learn a new complex strategy), and just wanting to minimize those situations where you don't play cards at all and at least get your strategy up and working. Completely agree with you here. For similar reasons I find it really interesting that this is generally perceived as a downside among players who want to be more casual. When multiplayer games can take up to 2-3 hours a game, you tend to get really tired of situations where bad eggs show up and waste the session. Shorter games where aggro and fast combo show out to end games by turn 4 prevents things from dragging too much and lets people start the table clean if they want a second go, and it's easier to change decks and tune your power level as the games progress when you have enough time to switch decks mid-session. Back when my last bigger playgroup still existed, EDH first got noticed here in Germany as well. So we game it a try with five people: Meaning: We had a massive standstill, the game took almost four hours to finish. We never played another round like that. Still, as much as I agree with you how games should not take too as well – turn 4 feels like the game barely got started to me. Don't get me wrong, having some games end that way is completely fine – but I prefer my games lasting a few rounds longer (6-8 maybe?)
Concerning the second question, I admit I'm a bit torn. First of all: I'm really not supprised they finally do this – on the contrary, I had expected them to try stuff like this quite some time ago already. If I remember correctly, WotC stated they want to use a mixture of Godzilla-Reskins and TWD unique cards, no? I don't mind the first type at all, the second one I'm not too fond of – but I think I'll get used to it. At least WotC for once is honest about this right from the start! Also I like our first glimpse at the Forgotten Realms quite much, so I hope they'll try to give the Universes Beyond sets their best as well? Also as much negativity as the announcement has created, looking at our forum in particular, we have had our fair share of foreign IP custom sets as well – and if done well they've received as much praise as „normal“ sets easily. I think a big question will also always be how hard the new IP clashes with what we currently have – when will MaRo announce WotC finally printing five Simpson legends to prove his point about the five characters perfectly fitting the five colors of Magic?
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ArkiThe7th
1/1 Squirrel
Any plant is edible if you’re not a coward.
Posts: 82
Favorite Card: Wee Dragonauts
Favorite Set: Pauper Masters (wait a second...)
Color Alignment: Blue, Red
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Post by ArkiThe7th on May 29, 2021 11:23:57 GMT
I very rarely play actual 4-person commander because I don’t have a dedicated play group. So I can’t really give many thoughts there. I’ll just say I believe Magic is at it’s best with 2 people. As for Universes Beyond, I don’t like it. I think that a large part of what drew me to this game was the lore and story. I don’t follow every story article and novel, but I still find it interesting and could give you a general history of most planes. I love it when a game that I play can be more than just a game, when it can create stories that I get invested in, and when I can recognize the cards I play and relate to their characters. Universes Beyond defiles the sanctity that I love. Oko might not have belonged in standard as a mechanical card, but he certainly fit with Chandra, Elspeth and other characters. Rick from the Walking Dead on the other hand, does not. What I’m saying is that Magic’s consistency among its lore and story when translated into the game, is great. I’m not a fan of breaking that consistency with other IPs. I’m not going to enjoy a game where I can cast Batman on turn 3, followed by Frodo on turn 4, and Optimus Prime on 5. For a much better expressed version of my thoughts, watch this.
With that said though, I fully support anybody who wants to make IP-based custom sets. I think a lot of them are really great, I just value having the boundary between official and custom. When WotC makes OFFICIAL cards that are LEGAL in many official formats, I lose that boundary.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jun 1, 2021 17:39:39 GMT
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Post by dangerousdice on Jun 1, 2021 18:13:58 GMT
it offends my vorthos sensibilities, of course, but...
if other people are having fun, who am I to tell them "your wrong"? I mean, I'm here because I love playing magic, and if universes beyond brings more people in, and they get that same love for magic I have, then why should they be told "you can't use the deck you brought with you, because it uses crossover cards"?
all in all, it doesnt really take anything from me, and it adds to other people's experience, so i'd give it a 6 out of ten.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jun 3, 2021 17:10:53 GMT
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jun 5, 2021 16:04:10 GMT
If foureyesisafish doesn't respond within the next 24 hours, we're just gonna proceed without them.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jun 7, 2021 19:41:13 GMT
Well, I've given foureyesisafish more than enough time, so we're just gonna go ahead without them.
You've all raised excellent points, so I don't feel the need to say much more on the subject beyond that if they'd handled The Walking Dead Secret Lair promo (when this whole mess started) better, with a Godzilla-style treatment, or a special border, or anything other than what they did, which broke a core, fundamental promise of the initial Secret Lair announcement, the whole mess prolly would've been better received by all. But I guess now we'll never know, will we?
As to what properties I'd most wanna see in Universes Beyond? On the one hand, I agree with The Professor's statement of "If this is such a good idea, why isn't it being reciprocated?" But, otoh, a part of me really wants a few streams crossed, like Dr. Who, The Venture Bros., The Dark Crystal (and mebbe all of the Henson Co. at large*), Star Wars*, Marvel*, mebbe some DC properties*, and The SCP Foundation (I have a few ideas about my character there, Lab Tech Abe Zhabramy, feeding a few Magic cards through 914 on Very Fine).
Our next question is from me: So, we have "This spell can't be countered", but what about "This spell must be countered"? What would that mean for the meta, and how would you go about making sure the rules can actually support this ability?
*ALL HAIL OUR MOUSE OVERLORD!!! (coming soon!)
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Jun 7, 2021 19:58:09 GMT
"If this is such a good idea, why isn't it being reciprocated?" I think something that's started to become apparent in recent Magic years is that there is likely a large gap between active Magic players who are much more involved with the game's social media and various issues we see talked about and the larger casual audience that has been stated multiple times to take up a large chunk of WoTC's market research. Secret Lair: The Walking Dead was known to be an unpopular idea, but still managed to be the best selling Secret Lair at the time of its release. So in that sense, the idea definitely is being reciprocated; just not in a way that more active players would consider healthy design or marketing for the game. (I'll answer the current question at a later date - don't treat this as my response.)
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jun 7, 2021 20:34:47 GMT
ZephyrPhantom: What I meant by reciprocated was why aren't these other IPs incorporating Magic characters into their brands?
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jun 7, 2021 20:35:49 GMT
So, this was just posted, and I don't know what to think of it.
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Jun 7, 2021 21:00:57 GMT
ZephyrPhantom: What I meant by reciprocated was why aren't these other IPs incorporating Magic characters into their brands? Ah, I see. I guess WoTC simply doesn't push for them or feels they stand to gain more by "X in Magic" as opposed to "Magic in X"? Aside from inter-company crossovers, they seem to have some awareness of those kinds of crossovers with smaller scale ones like this Puzzle and Dragons Crossover. So, this was just posted, and I don't know what to think of it. It seems inevitable that they would try and make an explicit hedge like this because MaRo was saying they were trying to do something like this in response to The Walking Dead cards for a while. I do think the core of the idea is helpful in that it basically turns every Secret Lair card into a Godzilla skin that's guaranteed a reprint 6 months later. That said, doing it through The List makes it sound like a lot of copies won't be printed and not including The Walking Dead feels like there's not a lot of general goodwill when it comes to making mechanically unique cards that risk impacting the tournament scene (like Rick did) accessible.
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Post by Daij_Djan on Jun 7, 2021 23:34:43 GMT
Our next question is from me: So, we have "This spell can't be countered", but what about "This spell must be countered"? What would that mean for the meta, and how would you go about making sure the rules can actually support this ability?
To be honest I don't really know enough about most formats to have any idea about whether a card a niche as this would eben be worth playing in any deck, but let's put that aside for now. If Magic were to be a purely digital format, the rules could handle an effect like this much better, but in paper Magic one need to force everyones' hands to be revealed.. Mostly inspired by Insist:
Bold Temptation Sorcery When you cast this spell, each player reveals their hand until end of turn. This spell must be countered if able.
Draw a card.
I could also see this ins red - or maybe using hybrid mana?
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foureyesisafish
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 388
Favorite Set: Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
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Post by foureyesisafish on Jun 8, 2021 14:43:47 GMT
Sorry for being absent for a while, I'm back now. I don't think can be countered if able works? The closest thing I can think of is flagbearer text on a spell.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jun 8, 2021 15:10:22 GMT
foureyesisafish: Long time, no see. Nothing serious, I hope. Now that you're here, would you care to answer the previous question, What is the panel's opinion on universes beyond, and (optional) what show or movie would you want to appear the most?
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foureyesisafish
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 388
Favorite Set: Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
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Post by foureyesisafish on Jun 8, 2021 15:46:47 GMT
Sibling went through surgery. And as for the question... I can't really decide.
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Post by Daij_Djan on Jun 8, 2021 16:24:03 GMT
Sibling went through surgery.
OK, wow - hope they are fine!
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Jun 8, 2021 17:30:35 GMT
Sibling went through surgery. And as for the question... I can't really decide. Wishing them a speedy recovery.
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