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Post by sdfkjgh on Apr 6, 2021 0:09:13 GMT
I was piloting a modified Corngasm list (Setessan Champion/Season of Growth+Auras, name comes from Alseid of Life's Bounty), I had them down to 2, and they cast Emergent Ultimatum, finding Omniscience, Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider, and Liliana, Dreadhorde General. After much deliberation, I decided that my best bet was to pick the Praetor, and hope for the best. They then cast fucking eugene!
This is NOT ok!
R&D needs to do away with the phrase "without paying its mana cost", and needs to institute a new rule:
Spells can't be cast, and permanents can't enter the battlefield, if less than their full mana cost has been paid to cast it. Subrule: Nontoken permanents can't enter the battlefield if they weren't cast.
How many goddamn times have free spells come back to bite them and us in the ass?! How many times must this lesson be ignored?! Why do we keep having to go over this?!
There needs to be a Council of The Mana System in addition to The Council of Colors. |
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jverse
3/3 Beast
Posts: 195
Favorite Card: Animar, Soul of Elements
Favorite Set: Shadowmoor
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Post by jverse on Apr 24, 2021 21:45:13 GMT
This rule would make hundreds of cards unplayable, including everything from goblin electromancer to omniscience. I would argue that they need to do away with mechanics that give you free spells, like storm, affinity, dredge, etc. Balancing a few cards that require you to jump through hoops for a free spell is much less of a problem.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Apr 29, 2021 3:32:45 GMT
U.S. Fiscal Policy Be All Like...    Legendary Enchantment  (Un- set) Flash
This spell costs less to cast if you control the greatest number of permanents among players.
Shroud, indestructible
At the beginning of each player’s upkeep, for each permanent type, if that player controls the fewest number of that type of permanent among players or is tied for fewest, the player who controls the greatest number of that type of permanent gains control of each permanent of that type that player controls. Creatures gained control of this way gain haste until end of turn.
#ShitpostingOnTheSevens |
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Giraculum
0/0 Germ
Posts: 34
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by Giraculum on Apr 30, 2021 5:56:42 GMT
There ain't no such thing as a "free spell"...
Yawgmoth's Fine Print
Enchantment Whenever an opponent casts a spell without paying its mana cost, counter it unless they pay its actual cost to you. (Check TCGPlayer or your local game shop for the latest prices.) |
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jverse
3/3 Beast
Posts: 195
Favorite Card: Animar, Soul of Elements
Favorite Set: Shadowmoor
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
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Post by jverse on Apr 30, 2021 10:52:44 GMT
There ain't no such thing as a "free spell"...
Yawgmoth's Fine Print
Enchantment Whenever an opponent casts a spell without paying its mana cost, counter it unless they pay its actual cost to you. (Check TCGPlayer or your local game shop for the latest prices.) Lol! I love the "un" idea of charging players actual money to play their cards. |
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skagra42
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Post by skagra42 on Mar 10, 2022 18:50:32 GMT
While perhaps free spells have a tendency to be overpowered, even if it is a good idea to stop making them (which I don't think it is), the existing ones are currently balanced in some formats. Many never ended up being broken, and the ones that did have still been fine existing in some higher power level formats.
What would this council do?
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 18, 2022 9:22:56 GMT
While perhaps free spells have a tendency to be overpowered, even if it is a good idea to stop making them (which I don't think it is), the existing ones are currently balanced in some formats. Many never ended up being broken, and the ones that did have still been fine existing in some higher power level formats. What would this council do? The whole point of The Mana System is that gains in mana are supposed to be incremental across your turns, throughout the entirety of the game. Turn 1, 1 mana; turn 2, 2 mana; & so on, etc. My biggest objection with these free spells is that they go up in mana. Emergent Ultimatum costs seven, and usually gets 12-21 mana worth of cards. This violates Rule #11 several orders of magnitude above and beyond Black Lotus, widely considered to be the most overpowered card in the game. It's the same or similar with cards like Muxus, Goblin Grandee, Winota, Joiner of Forces, Paradox Engine2, and any others that completely ignore The Mana System.3
The Council of Mana would make sure that any and all new designs that potentially violate Rule #11 would be immediately sent back to the drawing board, until they only ever go down in mana, i.e. if a card costs 5 and allows casting without paying mana cost, that free spell's mana value should have a hard upper limit of 4. The expertise cycle is how things should be from now on; otherwise we'll keep seeing formats break, and a regular cycle of bans, because Wizards refuses to learn from their mistakes.
1Don't subvert The Mana System.
2I don't know why the fuck this is still legal in Historic, or indeed ANY format! Too broken and insane for Commander should immediately mean too broken and insane for all other formats!
3Somewhat tangentially related is Hullbreaker Horror, in that the bounce ability's usefulness absolutely should've been limited by the triggering spell's mana value, i.e. a spell with mv of 1 should've only ever been able to bounce a spell or permanent with mv 1 or less.
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skagra42
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Post by skagra42 on Mar 21, 2022 20:42:47 GMT
While perhaps free spells have a tendency to be overpowered, even if it is a good idea to stop making them (which I don't think it is), the existing ones are currently balanced in some formats. Many never ended up being broken, and the ones that did have still been fine existing in some higher power level formats. What would this council do? The whole point of The Mana System is that gains in mana are supposed to be incremental across your turns, throughout the entirety of the game. Turn 1, 1 mana; turn 2, 2 mana; & so on, etc. My biggest objection with these free spells is that they go up in mana. Emergent Ultimatum costs seven, and usually gets 12-21 mana worth of cards. This violates Rule #11 several orders of magnitude above and beyond Black Lotus, widely considered to be the most overpowered card in the game. It's the same or similar with cards like Muxus, Goblin Grandee, Winota, Joiner of Forces, Paradox Engine2, and any others that completely ignore The Mana System.3
The Council of Mana would make sure that any and all new designs that potentially violate Rule #11 would be immediately sent back to the drawing board, until they only ever go down in mana, i.e. if a card costs 5 and allows casting without paying mana cost, that free spell's mana value should have a hard upper limit of 4. The expertise cycle is how things should be from now on; otherwise we'll keep seeing formats break, and a regular cycle of bans, because Wizards refuses to learn from their mistakes.
1Don't subvert The Mana System.
2I don't know why the fuck this is still legal in Historic, or indeed ANY format! Too broken and insane for Commander should immediately mean too broken and insane for all other formats!
3Somewhat tangentially related is Hullbreaker Horror, in that the bounce ability's usefulness absolutely should've been limited by the triggering spell's mana value, i.e. a spell with mv of 1 should've only ever been able to bounce a spell or permanent with mv 1 or less.
In Magic, it's important to have ways to get mana advantage from other advantages. This isn't ignoring the mana system; it's using it. Gaining mana advantage is supposed to be one of the main ways to get ahead in a game of Magic. The ability to gain it is important for adding fun decisions to the game, such as "do I care more about the mana advantage gained by Pyretic Ritual or the card advantage lost by doing so, and if I do, how many copies should I run?" and "is being able to gain mana advantage off of another copy of Animate Dead worth it sometimes being a dead card?". Also, I disagree with 2's claim that something broken in Commander is inherently broken in other formats such as Vintage, as Commander is very different from other formats due to having four players and a starting life total of forty, in addition to other significant differences. It's also not the format with the highest power level, and even if it was, some cards are broken in higher level formats and not in lower power level ones due to things like different potential synergies and meta differences. |
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skagra42
0/0 Germ
Posts: 7
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Color Alignment: White, Blue
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Post by skagra42 on Mar 26, 2022 22:49:31 GMT
I was piloting a modified Corngasm list (Setessan Champion/Season of Growth+Auras, name comes from Alseid of Life's Bounty), I had them down to 2, and they cast Emergent Ultimatum, finding Omniscience, Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider, and Liliana, Dreadhorde General. After much deliberation, I decided that my best bet was to pick the Praetor, and hope for the best. They then cast fucking eugene!
This is NOT ok! Why is it not okay? Which format did it happen in? I see nothing in this post that makes it sound like there was too little balance in this game. In fact, you getting your opponent down to 2 life makes it sound like the opposite was especially likely. |
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Post by sdfkjgh on Mar 27, 2022 16:24:20 GMT
I'm going to answer your two most recent posts.
First, R&D have admitted that mana rituals break the game, that's why they don't print them anymore. And before you bring up Irencrag Feat, notice how much of a restriction that card has on it.
Second, the format was Historic.
Third, what's so wrong about it is they spent 7 mana to get 26 mana-worth of permanents, 10 of which completely ignores The Mana System! Omniscience was a complete and total mistake, from the name being wrong (it should be Omnipotence, as one can be all-knowing and still not all-powerful; and all-powerful sounds more like being able to do whatever the fuck you want without any regards to the rules), to what it does. If there's one thing that should be absolutely sacrosanct in ANY game, it should be the very bedrock foundations of that game, and The Mana System is ours.
Leave the bedrock-destroying effects to Un- sets, where they can't actually hurt anything.
Fourth, reprinting fucking eugene was another mistake, especially since at the time of reprinting, there was way too much mana ramp to be healthy for ANY Meta, turning every deck into a far too credible imitation of Tron.
I can understand small incremental advantages. Llanowar Elves, Growth Spiral, Migratory Greathorn--all good cards, Brett, but perhaps only on their own, and not run together. It's the cards that say "Nah, fuck all that, here's an infinite supply of mana, irrespective of how much you put in." Cards like that break things. Cards like that get the entirety of R&D called into the president's office to be yelled at. |
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skagra42
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Post by skagra42 on Mar 29, 2022 15:37:32 GMT
Third, what's so wrong about it is they spent 7 mana to get 26 mana-worth of permanents, 10 of which completely ignores The Mana System! Omniscience was a complete and total mistake, from the name being wrong (it should be Omnipotence, as one can be all-knowing and still not all-powerful; and all-powerful sounds more like being able to do whatever the fuck you want without any regards to the rules), to what it does. If there's one thing that should be absolutely sacrosanct in ANY game, it should be the very bedrock foundations of that game, and The Mana System is ours. While the mana system is one of the "bedrock foundations" of Magic, that mana system isn't one in which players are meant to never gain much mana advantage. Being able to gain mana advantage is an important part of the mana system. It's built into a large portion of the game — favorable blocks, most removal spells, choosing to run especially large numbers of lands and building your deck to help you survive long enough to play a lot of them, and a lot of less important other methods of gaining it such as ramp, mana denial, some reanimation, etc. Being able to gain mana advantage and disadvantage adds a major axis on which you can get closer to winning and another resource to prioritize or deprioritize, making the game quite a bit more fun and interesting. It's what makes it such a great bedrock foundation. |
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