Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 4:40:22 GMT
GROOVY STAR WARS MUSIC PLAYS
THE GREATEST OF ALL SAGAS HAS NOW COME TO A CLOSE BALANCE HAS BEEN RETURNED TO THE FORCE WE CAN ALL REST EASY KNOWING THAT THE GALAXY IS SAFE ONCE MORE NOW ALL THAT REMAINS TO DO IS FOR THESE STORIES TO PASS ON INTO LEGEND
AND FOR THEM TO BE RECREATED IN THE MINDS OF MAN FOR ALL ETERNITY
Ladies and gents, this was bound to happen. Foretold even. But it's not a project I can take on on my own. So I must call upon every Star Wars Nerd on the site to aid me in my quest to create the GREATEST SUPERSET EVER!
Of course, we need to lay in some ground rules real quick before things get crazy and out of control and people get upset. So:
1. I'm going to put a list of "blocks" in this post that are done, are in progress, or need to be started. A "block" typically consists of period of time within the Star Wars Universe but could also be a faction or a place, and should consist of at least 20 cards of any rarity and color distribution. Just announce which of these you're starting when you start it that way two people don't start the same project, and please finish a block before starting a new one. No block dibs. 2. You're allowed to have up to 1 new mechanic and as many returning mechanics as you like in a single block. Think Modern Horizons, but Star Wars. If you're adding a new mechanic please try to make it a focus, but don't sweat it if it's only on a handful of cards.
3. If you want a new, overarching mechanic for the superset, discuss it here to get it hammered out, because chances are a lot of people are going to use it. We want the overarching mechanics to be well-crafted.
4. This being Star Wars, inevitably factions (read: tribes) are going to start cropping up. I'm going to deal with some of the most prominent ones below, but if others turn up, they will be added to the list.
5. If you're doing a planet for the fist time, feel free to make a plane-chase style card for that planet. I do want that to be a format at some point, since it just fits so well with the theme of planet-hopping.
With that out of the way, here are some factions and their colors (abilities for you to decide!)
Droids  
Clones 
Rebels 
Empire/First Order  (And maybe ? To be debated)
Jedi
Sith
Bounty Hunters
Finished Blocks:
The Mandalorian Season 1 Episodes 1-4 -- schwa77
The Mandalorian Season 1 Episodes 5-8 -- schwa77
Blocks in Progress:
The Escape of the Droids & Tatooine -- James Brafin (Me!)
Battle for Endor -- schwa77
Taking on the Death Star -- Collex
Blocks To Be Begun:
(Episode 1)
The Escape from the Federation and Pre-Anakin Naboo
Young Anakin Tatooine
The Time on Coruscant
Post-Young Anakin Naboo
(Episode 4)
The Escape of the Droids & Tatooine
Traveling on the Millennium Falcon and The Death Star & Escape
Taking on the Death Star
(Other Material)
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jverse
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Post by jverse on Jan 19, 2020 22:58:22 GMT
Hey man. First of all, good on you for taking on such an ambitious project. It's no small task to design these sets and remain faithful to the abundant source material. That being said, there is already a very robust and professional Star Wars MTG series called Star Wars: The Gathering created by Soulofzendikar. It includes episodes 1-8 and side films (Solo and Rogue one) with episode 9 sure to follow. It also has everything else you mentioned, such as factions and new mechanics. Check it out. At the very least, you might get some inspiration.
With that out of the way, I think your droids should be primarily blue, since that's the artifact colour. Maybe white if you want equipment and a bit of red if there are battle droids and lasers and all that. Clones are historically blue, and genetic manipulatuon is decidely simic (blue/green). I can understand why you would want it in white though, especially if you plan to make a lot of tokens. Consider soldiers or rebels instead. The empire/first order is black. Just black. Jedi and Sixth make sense in the colours you've chosen.
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 26, 2020 16:17:47 GMT
As a big fan of Star Wars, I'd be happy to help out with this. If possible, I'd like to take on the two Mandalorian blocks. Is there any specific list of characters I should follow, or just try to do most of the main ones from the series?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 18:58:06 GMT
Just get most of the main ones, and then add others if you see fit. I'll put you down!  |
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Post by collex on Jan 26, 2020 21:40:45 GMT
Hi there. So I was just going to start my own Star Wars top-down set, but the Wizard way (i.e. it would be my own ip, but recognizably Star Wars inspired) but the more I think about it, the more I think I should rehearse and stretch before going into a set. So I'd like to take pat in this.
At firts I wanted to say "I'll do the Rebels!" but then I noticed that you want us to design in blocks based on plot sections. That's a little weird to my eyes, but it's your project, so all right. I still want to focus on the Rebellion vs the Empire though, cause that's my favorite part of Star Wars, so I'll take the Taking on the Death Star block. I do have a few question though:
A) What is our set logo? Do we have one? If not, I'd be willing to try my hand at making one, depending on what we want.
B) Are the faction set in stone right now? Because I feel the Rebels would fit much better as Boros than as mono-white. And I strongly, strongly disagree with jverse that the Empire is mono-Black. As with any huge, fascist bureaucracy, it's White-Black. A guy like General Veers makes no sense as mono-black. So I'd suggest making Rebels Boros and the Imperials Orzhov. Which means they'd cross over in White, but since a lot of rebels are Imperial defectors, that makes sense to me. And that means I could go heavy with a go-wide Soldier-tribal archetype centered in White and being slightly different in red-white and black-white.
C) For set-wide mechanic, we absolutely need something to represent the Force. It flows through all living thing things and binds the universe tgether, so it should bind our set together too. I think we should brainstorm that one as a priority.
So yeah, I'd like the Taking on the Death Star block. You can let me know what you think of my suggestions, and I'll start designing soon.
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 26, 2020 22:57:15 GMT
Sorry to add to the questions, but I want to get a few things clarified before we get started.
A) Are we using snapshots from the movies/shows/etc., or should we look for more "artsy" ones to better match official MTG style?
B) Are there any generic keywords (Force, spaceflight for ships, etc) that we should know about before we start?
C) Will planets be represented in the set? Maybe a new type of land?
D) How should we plan on representing aliens with a one-off species (in my case, the mudhorn). Should we simply leave it as "beast" or have it be specific to each creature?
E) Is there a generic set logo, or should each block have their own logo? Currently I have the Mandalorian's signet (the mudhorn skull) as the two blocks' logo, but please let me know if I should change it.
Thanks for helping to clear this up. Can't wait to see where this project goes in the future!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 16:02:34 GMT
Hi there. So I was just going to start my own Star Wars top-down set, but the Wizard way (i.e. it would be my own ip, but recognizably Star Wars inspired) but the more I think about it, the more I think I should rehearse and stretch before going into a set. So I'd like to take pat in this. At firts I wanted to say "I'll do the Rebels!" but then I noticed that you want us to design in blocks based on plot sections. That's a little weird to my eyes, but it's your project, so all right. I still want to focus on the Rebellion vs the Empire though, cause that's my favorite part of Star Wars, so I'll take the Taking on the Death Star block. I do have a few question though: A) What is our set logo? Do we have one? If not, I'd be willing to try my hand at making one, depending on what we want. B) Are the faction set in stone right now? Because I feel the Rebels would fit much better as Boros than as mono-white. And I strongly, strongly disagree with jverse that the Empire is mono-Black. As with any huge, fascist bureaucracy, it's White-Black. A guy like General Veers makes no sense as mono-black. So I'd suggest making Rebels Boros and the Imperials Orzhov. Which means they'd cross over in White, but since a lot of rebels are Imperial defectors, that makes sense to me. And that means I could go heavy with a go-wide Soldier-tribal archetype centered in White and being slightly different in red-white and black-white. C) For set-wide mechanic, we absolutely need something to represent the Force. It flows through all living thing things and binds the universe tgether, so it should bind our set together too. I think we should brainstorm that one as a priority. So yeah, I'd like the Taking on the Death Star block. You can let me know what you think of my suggestions, and I'll start designing soon. 1. We do not have a set symbol yet. I'd be fien with you making one if you'd like 2. Not really. And I like those color combos for both. I do think Rebels makes sense as RW, and we could discuss the Empire being WB. 3. Agreed. I'm not sure how to do it but it definitely needs to happen. It probably needs to be something that can go on most permanent types, since Force abilites can come in so many flavors. I put you down! Welcome to the project! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 16:08:01 GMT
Sorry to add to the questions, but I want to get a few things clarified before we get started. A) Are we using snapshots from the movies/shows/etc., or should we look for more "artsy" ones to better match official MTG style? B) Are there any generic keywords (Force, spaceflight for ships, etc) that we should know about before we start? C) Will planets be represented in the set? Maybe a new type of land? D) How should we plan on representing aliens with a one-off species (in my case, the mudhorn). Should we simply leave it as "beast" or have it be specific to each creature? E) Is there a generic set logo, or should each block have their own logo? Currently I have the Mandalorian's signet (the mudhorn skull) as the two blocks' logo, but please let me know if I should change it. Thanks for helping to clear this up. Can't wait to see where this project goes in the future! A) I'm really not to picky either way. Just make sure it's consistent within your set (i.e. if you do snapshots, do ALL snapshots) B) Not yet. If you have an idea for one, plop it in here though. C) Yeah, as Planes. I want Planechase to be a format in this for sure. As for lands, try and leave the higher-rarity ones for special places (Like Echo Base 1) D) As close as you can get. Try to avoid getting too specific an also don't use "alien" (so, for example, don't do 'Mudhorn Beast' or 'Alien Beast', but 'Rhino Beast' would be fine), but other then that, as long as it makes sense go for it. E) See 1 above, but if we wanted to do custom symbols for each one I would be cool with that. It's just a lot of symbols. |
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 27, 2020 21:09:18 GMT
The only generic keyword I can think of would be "spaceflight," which is basically a layer above traditional flying where only spaceships can go to attack/block (can't be blocked by creatures with reach). As for Force, maybe an Enrage-style ability that triggers whenever something happens?
Also, I think we need to establish some base types for the factions. Obviously Jedi, Sith, and Rebels are set. Maybe Troopers for Clones/Stormtroopers/other misc units, Mercenaries for bounty hunters, maybe just Beast for generic one-off aliens (tauntaun, rancor, etc)?
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Post by collex on Jan 27, 2020 22:15:36 GMT
For subtypes, here are my ideas:
A) I think we should replace the Race/Class default with a Faction/Class default. That way, we can have Jedi Knight, Sith Warlock, Imperial Soldier, Mercenary Rogue or Rebel Noble. It would also prevent us from having to come up with tons of subtype for alien species. We can make an exception for a couple species who we might want a lot of (ex. the Ewoks).
B) I don't think we need a trooper type. I think soldier works fine, and is accurate to boot.
C) I don't think spaceflight is is necessary, because I don't see us making enough flying planetary vehicles for it to be worth it. There is what, the Snowspeeders, the Cloud Cars and those Coruscant Speeder in AotC? Maybe the T14 Skyhopper? I would not give flying to hovering stuff like speeder bikes,but I'm fine in sacrificing a bit of flavor for the sake of good gameplay and allowing a Tie to engage a snowspeeder. Hell, the sequel trilogy does it all the time.
D) My first idea for the Force is - don't laugh - Clash, from Lorwyn. That's roughly how the most recent SW card game did it. You and your opponent clash to try to get the Force on your side, and if you win something happens. Problem is that Clash is not the greatest mechanic. But it's worth thinking about.
E) Ultimately it's every designer's choice, but I'd encourage everyone to use drawn art. Between all the RPGs, comics, TCGs and fanart made about Star Wars, there should be enough there to satisfy every need.
F) For set symbols, maybe instead of having one set symbol or one for each block, we could have one for each film/show/game series or one for each era (PT, OT, ST, KOTOR and LEGACY if we get there)
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 27, 2020 23:12:53 GMT
A) I think we should replace the Race/Class default with a Faction/Class default. That way, we can have Jedi Knight, Sith Warlock, Imperial Soldier, Mercenary Rogue or Rebel Noble. It would also prevent us from having to come up with tons of subtype for alien species. We can make an exception for a couple species who we might want a lot of (ex. the Ewoks). While I like this idea, you run into some problems with characters that don't necessarily fit into a faction. For example, Kuiil in my Mando set definitely doesn't count as a mercenary, and with the Faction/Class setup, he wouldn't have a place to go. Like you said, maybe we can make an exception for a few species, but I think we will run into a lot of problems down the road. One potential solution is to combine both the Race/Class and Faction/Class ideas, so you still have Jedi Knight but also Ugnaught Artificier. |
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 27, 2020 23:29:07 GMT
2. You're allowed to have up to 1 new mechanic and as many returning mechanics as you like in a single block. Think Modern Horizons, but Star Wars. If you're adding a new mechanic please try to make it a focus, but don't sweat it if it's only on a handful of cards.
How strict is this "one new mechanic per block" rule? I've come up with a few for the Mandalorian set and figured since I'm doing one of the first ones it's fine, but since it's your project, I'll leave it up to you to decide. |
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Post by collex on Jan 27, 2020 23:40:54 GMT
A) I think we should replace the Race/Class default with a Faction/Class default. That way, we can have Jedi Knight, Sith Warlock, Imperial Soldier, Mercenary Rogue or Rebel Noble. It would also prevent us from having to come up with tons of subtype for alien species. We can make an exception for a couple species who we might want a lot of (ex. the Ewoks). While I like this idea, you run into some problems with characters that don't necessarily fit into a faction. For example, Kuiil in my Mando set definitely doesn't count as a mercenary, and with the Faction/Class setup, he wouldn't have a place to go. Like you said, maybe we can make an exception for a few species, but I think we will run into a lot of problems down the road. One potential solution is to combine both the Race/Class and Faction/Class ideas, so you still have Jedi Knight but also Ugnaught Artificier. I see your point, but I don't think that will be that much of a problem. There are not that many characters, especially in the main movies, that are truly neutral and that cannot be fitted into a category. I really do not like sets that make up a ton of new creature type, because they become very parasitic. I have a few suggestions for the outliers that could work: A) We give those characters two classes. I think we could easily cover most edge case that way. B)We create a neutral faction type we use on every edge case - Citizen is an existing type that would work well here. This is my favorite option C) We make the ruling body of an era the "default" of everyone who doesn't fit into anything else. So that would mean Republic in the case of the PT and ST (and I'd count Mandalorian as ST) and Imperial in the OT. I'm not a big fan of this option, but it is an option. D) We could do like some other ST games and have a good neutral faction (Scoundrel) and an evil one (Mercenary). That would have the flaw that Mando would be Scoundrel instead of a Mercenary, despite being a bounty hunter. . That said, if people want to use race for neutral characters, I'll run with that. |
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 28, 2020 0:08:09 GMT
I think Citizen is definitely the way to go here since, as you said, there are very few characters who are truly neutral. I too don't love the idea of "Ruling Faction is Generic" since the characters aren't aligned with any faction, it seems wrong to put them in something non-generic.
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 28, 2020 16:30:35 GMT
Some various thoughts and ideas 1) Is there going to be a "standard" design/set of abilities for lightsabers? They're definitely the most notable artifact we will have, and I wonder if there's some way we can combine fighting with them/cutting things (attack boost, maybe destroying walls) and deflecting blaster fire (I have a few creatures with abilities like " ,  : Deal 2 damage to target creature" so maybe we could make it so a lightsaber-equipped creature can redirect the damage to another creature?) 2) As an idea for the Force, maybe a way to tap the creature in order to tap target creature/artifact, play force-related enchantments/instants/sorceries for lower mana cost, and place +1/+1 counters on themselves? Obviously since there's so many types it'd be an ability word, not a keyword but I think this works given the many uses of the Force throughout the Star Wars universe. 3) On the "Is the Empire mono-black or white-black" debate, I think it goes both ways. Creatures that create other small trooper creatures (specifically stormtroopers) would be white, but other creatures would likely be black. Currently I'm using both, but let me know if we are changing to mono-black for consistency's sake. |
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Post by collex on Jan 28, 2020 19:00:54 GMT
Is there going to be a "standard" design/set of abilities for lightsabers? They're definitely the most notable artifact we will have, and I wonder if there's some way we can combine fighting with them/cutting things (attack boost, maybe destroying walls) and deflecting blaster fire (I have a few creatures with abilities like " , : Deal 2 damage to target creature" so maybe we could make it so a lightsaber-equipped creature can redirect the damage to another creature?) As an idea for the Force, maybe a way to tap the creature in order to tap target creature/artifact, play force-related enchantments/instants/sorceries for lower mana cost, and place +1/+1 counters on themselves? Obviously since there's so many types it'd be an ability word, not a keyword but I think this works given the many uses of the Force throughout the Star Wars universe. On the "Is the Empire mono-black or white-black" debate, I think it goes both ways. Creatures that create other small trooper creatures (specifically stormtroopers) would be white, but other creatures would likely be black. Currently I'm using both, but let me know if we are changing to mono-black for consistency's sake. I don't know for lightsabers. I don't think we should make too many of them as stand-alone artifact, because they all pretty much function the same. I can see having a few to represent significantly diffrent models or factions, but we don't need to give individual cards to everyone's lightsaber. I think instant/sorceries can probably represent most special lightsaber moves. That said, my block doesn't have lightsaber, so it's up to you guys. As for your Force idea, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you give us example designs? It would help me grok your ideas better. Finally, for the Empire, yeah of course not every empire card needs to be white and black. Like all factions in Magic, monocolored cards will make the brunt of the faction, esp. at common. Looking at Ravnica sets might help getting the right mix. I think we can search by watermark in Gatherer. |
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 28, 2020 19:18:52 GMT
ForceThinking about the force idea, it might be best to have it as a few keywords. See below for examples. Force - When this creature attacks, tap target creature until end of turn. Meditation - When this creature becomes tapped, place a +1/+1 counter on it. I'm still working on a way to have the whole "Force characters provide mana for force-related spells." Maybe Force can be a subtype of sorceries, instants, and enchantments? LightsabersAll I have in my block is {Mandalorian Spoilers}
The Darksaber so I'll see what I can come up with there. I think the idea of instants as lightsaber-moves is the best move for balance. EmpireAgreed. More important Empire characters would be more likely to be dual-colored, but the common/uncommon are mono-color soldiers.
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 29, 2020 0:42:45 GMT
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Post by collex on Jan 29, 2020 0:58:40 GMT
I don't have much time, so I will come back with more comments later, but 3 things: A) How do you put bounty counters on thing? Because right now, I see no way of putting a bounty counter on anything and thus triggering the Bounty ability. B) I think your equipments would be more fun to play if instead of only being able to be equipped to Mercenary, they had an ability similar to either Shining Armor, Steelclaw Lance, or Veteran's Armaments. C) Card subtypes, such as Mercenary, are always capitalized, no matter where they are in the text. Overall I liked your selection though! |
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 29, 2020 1:06:44 GMT
A) Bounty counters are coming in 5-8. Couldn't figure out a good way to do them in 1-4.
B) Decided the whole thing is "Mandalorian/Beskar tools are for Mandalorians only," hence the Mercenary restriction. I'll think about opening it up, but it's another playability vs flavor debate.
C) Fixed.
Thanks for the feedback!
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 29, 2020 1:12:21 GMT
Speaking of 5-8, they're finally done! Some quick edits and the Mandalorian sets should be completely finished. imgur.com/gallery/RxR65DjAlso WOAH the Mando cards blew up on Imgur. Maybe it'll bring more people over to the project? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 3:11:53 GMT
Mages I love these. Working on mine, but a bit lost for good creatures. I'm close though, and have a little representation for each color.
Also, that mount ability is pretty good right there, and I can think of a way to use those bounty tokens for sure.
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 29, 2020 15:26:14 GMT
Glad you like them! I couldn't find any good art to add Bounty counters but I'm sure when we get to the original trilogy there will be a lot more.
Also, a few ideas for your set (outside of the more notable SW characters) since you're struggling for creatures.
- Dewbacks with the new Mount mechanic
- Sandtroopers
- Escape Pod as either a vehicle or instant. Not sure how you'd want to do this one.
- Jawas (feel free to copy mine or mix them up)
- Sandcrawler (something I unfortunately didn't have the art to add. Hopefully you can come up with something cool)
- Womp Rats if you can find decent art
- Maybe some generic Mos Eisley smugglers/pilots?
Just a few ideas for you. I'll get to work on rebalancing the Mando cards, then figure out what I want to do for another set (assuming I'm still allowed to).
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Post by collex on Jan 29, 2020 18:15:06 GMT
@jamesbrafin - I second schwa77 idea of using Cantina patrons for creatures. In particular, I'm thinking of Ponda Baba as a red creature, Doctor Evazan as either blue or black, Momaw Nadon as green, and Garindan ezz Zavor as another blue or black creature. Now, I've given you their names so you can look them up easily, but I wouldn't use them on the card or make the card legendary creatures. I'd just give them generic names like "Aqualish Thug" or "Kubaz Spy" or things like that. If we make legendary creatures for every extra who was given a name by the EU, we'll only have legendary creature in the set. Similarly, in my block (probably going to finish it today or tomorrow), I'm not going to give a legendary card to every X-Wing pilot, even though they have name (or at least a callsign). I'm just giving a legendary card to Wedge (since I wanted a Rebel legend and Luke and Leia seem better suite to other blocks). Schwa77 - Once again, I don't have a lot of time, but here are a couple of things that need fixing: 1) Moff Gideon: You cannot have tokens with the same name as a card unless that token is a copy of said card (see Ajani, Strength of the Pride and Ajani's Pridemate[/age] for an example). So Gideon should simply make black 1/1 Imperial Soldier tokens. We can then put various stormtroopers, including Death Troopers, on the tokens. 2) Greef Garga: This one is likely just a goof, but you wrote bounty creature instead of bounty counter. I'll be back later. |
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 29, 2020 18:58:38 GMT
Wasn't aware of the "Cards and Tokens Name" rule. I'll get to fixing that. And thanks for catching Karga's typo. It was pretty late and I must have glossed over it. collex I think you can include Luke as "Luke Skywalker, Red Five" in the set if you want him. Might be nice to have an additional pilot since I assume you have a lot of vehicles. @jamesbrafin Any chance I can reserve Battle of Endor as my next set? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 19:30:01 GMT
Those are good ideas! I'll just put together all the time on Tatooine in movie #4 into one set I think.
And you bet! Battle for Endor is all yours.
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 29, 2020 19:33:57 GMT
I'll see what I can do with Endor. Any chance I can do 30 cards instead of 20 for the set?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 19:52:36 GMT
Oh yeah. It’s minimum 20 but if you have extra ideas go for it.
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Schwa77
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Post by Schwa77 on Jan 29, 2020 20:01:30 GMT
Quick note: Mando sets aren't actually done yet. Need to run them through a few rounds of rebalancing, then they should be good to go. Anything super striking you think I should fix?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 0:00:54 GMT
Do more with the Bounty counters I think in 1-4. I want to play those up in other sets as well I think, and to have that anti-synergy in the one set is kind of odd.
Also, I wish there were a few more lands for important places, and maybe some cards for the empire folks from the first few episodes.
A good formatting for the equipment is to just give it "Equip Mercenary X"
Other than that I'm not seeing anything atm.
On another note, I'm stealing Mount for the Banthas. I'm about 3 cards away from having the core of Droid Escape being done, minus art, and once I manage that I'm going to shift to Mos Eisley.
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