|
|
Post by Lady Mapi on Jan 2, 2020 17:44:11 GMT
So. There are quite a few mechanics that are used repeatedly throughout different sets that have never gotten a shorthand.
I'm going to start with the big one - the boilerplate text for tutor effects is massive. "Search your library for [X], reveal it, then put it [Y]. Shuffle your library." can be dense on the card. And it's not like this is a rare bit of text - there are 126 different Green cards that use it for land-tutoring. "Tutor [X] [Y]" could work, so something like Lay of the Land would be "Tutor a basic land into your hand" instead of "Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library". I'm assuming that it'd be like Scry, where it doesn't generally have reminder text even on commons.
Are there any other instances of boilerplate-heavy rules that could be boiled down to a few words?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 18:37:53 GMT
DEEPTAPPING
Oh my gosh I’ve been saying this for years to anyone who would listen. We’ve been deep tapping stuff since the dawn of time. And it’s such a mouthful too. I don’t know what you would call it (maybe frozen, since it’s a mainly blue mechanic?) but it should be a thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by kilenc on Jan 2, 2020 18:41:30 GMT
If you follow along on Mark Rosewater's Tumblr (blogatog), there's been a big discussion about another one of these, mill. Mill is pretty long text ("[someone] puts the top [X] cards of their library into their graveyard") but as Rosewater has said, R&D hasn't found a suitable word. Many (like you did) suggest the common slang for these mechanics, but I agree with Mark however that "mill" or "tutor" aren't the appropriate words for these mechanics.
As custom card designers, we're pretty enfranchised, so we know the lingo and what "mill" and "tutor" mean. However, for a new player, these words don't instantly suggest their function, unlike a keyword like "flying" or "first strike" or "deathtouch" which is fairly easy to pick up on the general function, even if you don't get specifics. "mill" and "tutor" are useful for us, but not for the wider playerbase of Magic.
That being said, I don't have any good suggestions for keywords to replace these; just something I thought worth mentioning in a thread like this.
|
|
lizstar
1/1 Squirrel
At GDQ, won't really be here for a week. Contact me on Twitter if you want, also watch GDQ.
Posts: 77
Formerly Known As: Liz the Goddess, Marzen64
Favorite Card: Bearscape
Favorite Set: Odyssey
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
|
Post by lizstar on Jan 2, 2020 18:50:47 GMT
There are quite a few things that could be keyworded like this! And in other MTG-like cardgames, they are! In Faeria, "when this creature dies" is shortened to "Last Words". Of course, we had already shortened this. It used to be, what, "When this creature would leave the battlefield"? Another they have is "Production - At the beginning of your upkeep, EFFECT". Or Hearthstone's Battlecry - when this creature enters the battlefield, EFFECT. These are three that I think of immediately, because they're on SO MANY cards.
But that's also an issue. They're on SO MANY CARDS. So this new keyword would be slammed into a bunch of cards at once, and not only that, but everyone who plays would have to memorize yet another keyword. Wizards tries their hardest to not make any more evergreen keywords cause we already have so many and it's already a lot to memorize. This would increase mental gymnastics a lot for so many people, and also make it harder to note, for things that are triggers, like all the ones I mentioned are.
At least, that's my thoughts on it.
|
|
|
|
Post by arthurxiv on Jan 2, 2020 19:05:27 GMT
Yes probably all of us already thought about that. I decided to do it on my set and i'll probably create some Rules cards that gather the reminder text of these, as the 16th card of my booster pack. (It's theoretical, i'm not planning to create real booster packs, sadly.  ) Right now i use pseudos for etb and leave the battlefield triggers as Arrival — and Farewell —. I'm not happy with those two words but i will keep something short like these. We're not WotC and our cards are not for beginners so it should be fine. |
|
|
|
Post by Lady Mapi on Jan 2, 2020 19:07:05 GMT
There are quite a few things that could be keyworded like this! And in other MTG-like cardgames, they are! In Faeria, "when this creature dies" is shortened to "Last Words". Of course, we had already shortened this. It used to be, what, "When this creature would leave the battlefield"? Another they have is "Production - At the beginning of your upkeep, EFFECT". Or Hearthstone's Battlecry - when this creature enters the battlefield, EFFECT. These are three that I think of immediately, because they're on SO MANY cards.
But that's also an issue. They're on SO MANY CARDS. So this new keyword would be slammed into a bunch of cards at once, and not only that, but everyone who plays would have to memorize yet another keyword. Wizards tries their hardest to not make any more evergreen keywords cause we already have so many and it's already a lot to memorize. This would increase mental gymnastics a lot for so many people, and also make it harder to note, for things that are triggers, like all the ones I mentioned are.
At least, that's my thoughts on it.
I mean, they did it for Scry, didn't they? I think that if you found the right metaphor for the mechanic, it wouldn't be too terribly difficult to add (most of the mental "weight" for evergreen keywords was due to stuff like Protection and Regenerate, which they've dialed way back on). As for finding the right words... yeah, that's the tough part. One of my ex-coworkers really liked the idea of keywording mill as "Erase X", in allusion to Jace's Erasure. For tutoring, I kinda like "recall" (except that sounds like it should grab from the graveyard instead of your library) or browse (which isn't a transitive verb, so it doesn't read cleanly - you can't browse "to" something), but both of those words have their own issues. @jamesbrafin, we actually kinda do have a term for this, in the form of exert. You could say "tap and exert" - I'm surprised that they didn't have any targeted exert effects in Amonkhet. |
|
lizstar
1/1 Squirrel
At GDQ, won't really be here for a week. Contact me on Twitter if you want, also watch GDQ.
Posts: 77
Formerly Known As: Liz the Goddess, Marzen64
Favorite Card: Bearscape
Favorite Set: Odyssey
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
|
Post by lizstar on Jan 2, 2020 19:11:57 GMT
How many cards existed with Scry before Scry was a thing? It was made as a set keyword in Mirrodin block I think, then brought back much much later as an evergreen keyword, I think.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lady Mapi on Jan 2, 2020 19:34:15 GMT
That's a good point. I should've pointed to Lifelink, Menace, and Vigilance. Oh, and Haste. Scry was just a singularly terrible example on my part . |
|
|
|
Post by Jéské Couriano on Jan 3, 2020 16:54:21 GMT
How many cards existed with Scry before Scry was a thing? It was made as a set keyword in Mirrodin block I think, then brought back much much later as an evergreen keyword, I think. Just one - Opt. |
|
|
|
Post by arthurxiv on Jan 4, 2020 2:37:20 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by burntsquirrelman on Jan 17, 2020 16:13:10 GMT
Vigilance, Menace, and Haste are accurate, but Lifelink is distinctly different from "When this creature deals damage, gain that much life."
Also, as was mentioned before, they just haven't found the right wording for some of these yet, and it makes people have to remember complicated effects.
Haste - It is able to attack as soon as it hits the field
Vigilance - It doesn't tap when attacking
Tutor - Search [target] library for [maybe more than one?] [type] card, and [put do something with it]. Then shuffle.
|
|
|
|
Post by kefke on Jan 31, 2020 0:00:08 GMT
I don't know about keywording "Tutor", however I find it ridiculous that every single card that involves doing anything with the library has to specify that it is then shuffled. The majority of cards shuffle the library, so shouldn't that be the assumed default state be "always shuffle the library after searching it, unless the card says otherwise", rather than the reverse? That alone would save a fair amount of text on a lot of cards.
|
|
|
|
Post by nissaanimist on Apr 16, 2020 5:52:54 GMT
One that isn't seen to terribly often, but I think if they made an Evergreen word for would be amazing to show up almost every/every other set is
"This creature can block any number of creatures"
This would be so cool to see on big green/black/Multicolored creatures. First thing that comes to mind is "Multi-block/Multiblock" It kinda fits but at
the same time I feel like something could work better? "On guard"? hmmmm...
|
|
|
|
Post by kefke on Apr 16, 2020 9:48:47 GMT
One that isn't seen to terribly often, but I think if they made an Evergreen word for would be amazing to show up almost every/every other set is "This creature can block any number of creatures" This would be so cool to see on big green/black/Multicolored creatures. First thing that comes to mind is "Multi-block/Multiblock" It kinda fits but at the same time I feel like something could work better? "On guard"? hmmmm... The first word that comes to mind for me is "Sentinel", with a close second being "Blockade". |
|
|
|
Post by nissaanimist on Apr 16, 2020 14:02:31 GMT
One that isn't seen to terribly often, but I think if they made an Evergreen word for would be amazing to show up almost every/every other set is "This creature can block any number of creatures" This would be so cool to see on big green/black/Multicolored creatures. First thing that comes to mind is "Multi-block/Multiblock" It kinda fits but at the same time I feel like something could work better? "On guard"? hmmmm... The first word that comes to mind for me is "Sentinel", with a close second being "Blockade". OH HECK YEAH! "Sentinel" sounds amazing! Now I wanna use it as an evergreen effect ;-; dang it lol. |
|
|
|
Post by arthurxiv on Apr 17, 2020 8:29:39 GMT
The majority of cards [that involve searching the library] shuffle the library. Every single one of them actually, except Doomsday, which obviously doesn't care. |
|
guitarweeps
0/0 Germ
Posts: 28
Favorite Card: Birthing Pod
Favorite Set: Khans of Tarkir
Color Alignment: Black, Green
|
Post by guitarweeps on Apr 22, 2020 20:42:06 GMT
Problem with shortening tutor is that sometimes you reveal the card and other times you do not. Also, sometimes it goes to hand but can also go to other zones. Makes it hard to shorten because there are many variances of it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2020 23:23:40 GMT
guitarweeps That would be something like "Tutor to Exile" or "Tutor to your graveyard" or "Tutor to the Battlefield" or "Tutor and reveal." No biggie. Tutor would be short for "Search your library for a card and X. Then, shuffle your library afterwards." Also, how about Aggressive for "This creature attacks each combat if able?" It's not a lot but having it keyworded could have it be something that other cards care about, and it shows up in most sets.
|
|
|
|
Post by Daij_Djan on Apr 23, 2020 10:56:36 GMT
Problem with shortening tutor is that sometimes you reveal the card and other times you do not. Also, sometimes it goes to hand but can also go to other zones. Makes it hard to shorten because there are many variances of it.
Yeah, that's exactly the reason WotC gave when they unkeyworded Unblockable..
Also, how about Aggressive for "This creature attacks each combat if able?" It's not a lot but having it keyworded could have it be something that other cards care about, and it shows up in most sets.
sdfkjgh is probably pleased with your suggestion  Thing is, WotC doesn't want to keyword downsides anymore - Defender is the only one still used nowadays. |
|
|
|
Post by sdfkjgh on Apr 23, 2020 16:10:04 GMT
Daij_Djan, @jamesbrafin: Close, by my choice is aggressor.
|
|
|
|
Post by Daij_Djan on Jun 5, 2020 17:32:54 GMT
Well, guess they finally did it.. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2020 19:27:40 GMT
No. Way.
I'm going to lose my shit.
|
|
PEacefulOtter
1/1 Squirrel
Posts: 87
Formerly Known As: MTG_Sappy
Favorite Card: Shape Anew
Favorite Set: Throne of Eldrain
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Red, Green
|
Post by PEacefulOtter on Jul 28, 2020 20:02:22 GMT
Oh huh
|
|
|
|
Post by kefke on Jul 28, 2020 20:36:00 GMT
You know what should be keyworded?
Beekeeper.
You know why.
|
|
|
|
Post by murder3 on Sept 11, 2020 12:47:53 GMT
Return target creature/permanent/ to it's owner hand should be Bounce Cast it/play it without paying it's mana cost should be Free Cast/Free Play tap it, it doesn't untap during it's controller next untap step it should be Freeze but if freeze would ever be a keyword it should also silence the creature or planeswalker during it's in frozen state....btw Silence should be a evergreen ability keywörd. It works great in hs, it would work great in mtg as well.
|
|
)
Thing is, WotC doesn't want to keyword downsides anymore - Defender is the only one still used nowadays.
"When in doubt, do a common." 
