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Post by emberfire17 on Jan 11, 2023 17:50:04 GMT
For the Kiora card, I think it might be better to have the X ability be 0 with "Put loyalty counters on Kiora Atua equal to the number of seamonsters you control."
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jan 11, 2023 19:47:10 GMT
emberfire17: I'm a little disappointed that the flavor text didn't include at least one "Crikey!"
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Post by collex on Jan 11, 2023 20:35:09 GMT
Command Undead Signature Sorcery--Liliana (For as long as you control a Liliana planeswalker, you can that planeswalker to search your library for a signature Liliana card, reveal it, put that card into your hand, then shuffle. Normal planeswalker rules apply.)
Gain control of target undead permanent. (An undead permanent is one with one or more of the following subtypes--Graveborn, Shade, Skeleton, Spirit, Vampire, Werewolf, or Zombie.) This may be a dumb question, but why are werewolves considered undead? I don't think I've ever seen a werewolf story were they are undead.But maybe it's a common trope and I'm just forgetting?
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Jan 11, 2023 20:44:01 GMT
Command Undead " style="max-width:100%;"] " style="max-width:100%;"] " style="max-width:100%;"] Signature Sorcery--Liliana (For as long as you control a Liliana planeswalker, you can that planeswalker to search your library for a signature Liliana card, reveal it, put that card into your hand, then shuffle. Normal planeswalker rules apply.)
Gain control of target undead permanent. (An undead permanent is one with one or more of the following subtypes--Graveborn, Shade, Skeleton, Spirit, Vampire, Werewolf, or Zombie.) This may be a dumb question, but why are werewolves considered undead? I don't think I've ever seen a werewolf story were they are undead.But maybe it's a common trope and I'm just forgetting? Had to check but I think you're right by definition Werewolves aren't undead, just generally grouped in with the same horror creature 'group' as Undead, so I also think it should be removed from the card. (Also Liliana has never really worked with werewolves as far as I know so it would make more sense for this not to work on them)
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Sanfonier of the Night
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 399
Favorite Card: The Prismatic Bridge
Favorite Set: War of the Spark
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Black, Red, Green, Colorless
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Post by Sanfonier of the Night on Jan 11, 2023 23:31:28 GMT
I originally was just thinking Lizards, Snakes, and Dragons would work but then I realized there are a lot more reptile creature types. Are Hydras and/or Dinosaurs reptiles?
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Post by collex on Jan 12, 2023 1:00:51 GMT
I originally was just thinking Lizards, Snakes, and Dragons would work but then I realized there are a lot more reptile creature types. Are Hydras and/or Dinosaurs reptiles? For dinosaurs, it depends if we go by cultural or scientific rules. Cultural rules: Yes. Dinosaurs have been conceived as reptiles since the the idea of Dinosaurs came into its own as a different kind of being than dragons (post Darwin, because dinosaurs were simply impossible to conceptualize before the theory of evolution) Scientific rules: No. Dinosaurs are dinosaurs. Dinosaurs can be divided in two two group: non-avian and avian. Usually, when we use the term "dinosaurs, we mean specifically non-avian dinosaurs. Avian dinosaurs are more commonly called "birds".
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Sanfonier of the Night
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 399
Favorite Card: The Prismatic Bridge
Favorite Set: War of the Spark
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Black, Red, Green, Colorless
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Post by Sanfonier of the Night on Jan 12, 2023 1:37:38 GMT
Are Hydras and/or Dinosaurs reptiles? For dinosaurs, it depends if we go by cultural or scientific rules. Cultural rules: Yes. Dinosaurs have been conceived as reptiles since the the idea of Dinosaurs came into its own as a different kind of being than dragons (post Darwin, because dinosaurs were simply impossible to conceptualize before the theory of evolution) Scientific rules: No. Dinosaurs are dinosaurs. Dinosaurs can be divided in two two group: non-avian and avian. Usually, when we use the term "dinosaurs, we mean specifically non-avian dinosaurs. Avian dinosaurs are more commonly called "birds". If we say Reptile exist as a monophyletic group, then Dinosaurs are a reptile group and so do Birds. However, in Magic dinosaur is a paraphyletic group, so it should be a reptile.
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Sanfonier of the Night
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 399
Favorite Card: The Prismatic Bridge
Favorite Set: War of the Spark
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Black, Red, Green, Colorless
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Post by Sanfonier of the Night on Jan 12, 2023 1:39:29 GMT
And Serpents should count too. The monophyletic group is something like this. There is also the dificult placement off the Sauropterigya (Plesiosaur) and Icthyosaurs. However Magic treats then like dinos, on the other hand Plesiosaurs seems to be closely related to Turtles. That's the magic of phylogeny it is always changing.
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Post by twintania on Jan 12, 2023 14:34:37 GMT
Pieces : Soldier, Golem, Knight, Cleric, and Noble are pieces. The King is not included in pieces. It's you. Have a Full Set of Pieces : The state of controlling up to one each of Soldier, Golem, Knight, Cleric, and Noble.
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Sanfonier of the Night
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 399
Favorite Card: The Prismatic Bridge
Favorite Set: War of the Spark
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Black, Red, Green, Colorless
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Post by Sanfonier of the Night on Jan 12, 2023 14:48:44 GMT
Pieces : Soldier, Golem, Knight, Cleric, and Noble are pieces. The King is not included in pieces. It's you. Have a Full Set of Pieces : The state of controlling up to one each of Soldier, Golem, Knight, Cleric, and Noble. Why not make walls too, since they are rook (towers). I liked the Hiei card, Yu Yu Hakusho is great. In the promotion why just don't sacrifice (the pawn) and then put that creature in play, merge is a too much complicated action.
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Post by emberfire17 on Jan 12, 2023 17:35:41 GMT
Are Hydras and/or Dinosaurs reptiles? Damnit, I knew I missed more... Would it be too much to have 9 different creature types crammed into the reminder text? I feel like that would look too messy.
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Post by twintania on Jan 12, 2023 20:24:49 GMT
Why not make walls too, since they are rook (towers). I liked the Hiei card, Yu Yu Hakusho is great. In the promotion why just don't sacrifice (the pawn) and then put that creature in play, merge is a too much complicated action. I didn't even consider the wall since I thought the rook is a powerful trampling attacker who charges through seven ranks. (though a wall without defender can be so.) Actually, how do you accept the both facts that it is an immovable tower and it has a high mobility? I sometimes see an explanation that it is a castle soldier but the castle soldier in my image is same with pawn and I can't understand how it obtain such a straight move. In here, I assumed the rook was a mobile fortress and brick golems take the roll of it as a living castle. Now I think walls with varied conditions to lose their defender are suited for the rook because rooks generally don't move in an early stage but my thought didn't reach to it at the time I posted it. About Promotion, simply I don't like sacrifice to express a transform. It's not always bad. Natural Order requires a sacrifice is reasonable. Polymorph is also acceptable since in the flavor the original body would be lost forever. But imagine a queen's entrance besides Alice's body is roughly laid in the graveyard. Can you call it Promotion? I don't feel so. I now find that exiling a card to let target creature become the copy of it was enough to do it. Maybe I fix it later.
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Post by twintania on Jan 12, 2023 20:45:10 GMT
Damnit, I knew I missed more... Would it be too much to have 9 different creature types crammed into the reminder text? I feel like that would look too messy. In MtG, it is not odd if Dinosaur is reptile in a plane besides it is bird in another plane. Demon also have a different setting for each plane. Defining Dinosaur is bird and Hydra is earthworm or plant in your background plane resolves the problem. Btw, how about Wurm, Naga, Serpent, Kavu and Viashino?
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jan 12, 2023 22:12:13 GMT
This may be a dumb question, but why are werewolves considered undead? I don't think I've ever seen a werewolf story were they are undead.But maybe it's a common trope and I'm just forgetting? Had to check but I think you're right by definition Werewolves aren't undead, just generally grouped in with the same horror creature 'group' as Undead, so I also think it should be removed from the card. (Also Liliana has never really worked with werewolves as far as I know so it would make more sense for this not to work on them) So, full disclosure for those who didn't already know or guess, I'm a huge Pratchett fan, and my grouping of Werewolves into undead is actually a reference.
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Post by Flo00 on Jan 13, 2023 21:32:10 GMT
{Text}Fuel Can Carrier Creature - Human Carrier Whenever one or more fast creatures or vehicles you control deal combat damage to an opponent, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. This ability triggers only once each turn. (Creatures and vehicles with double strike, first strike, flash and haste are fast.)1/1 Rush to the Finish Line Instant Target creature gets +2/+0 and gains haste until end of turn. If you control another fast creature or vehicle, it also gains first strike until end of turn. (Creatures and vehicles with double strike, first strike, flash and haste are fast.)Spare Tire Artifact : Untap target fast creature or vehicle. (Creatures and vehicles with double strike, first strike, flash and haste are fast.)Underdressed Cheerleader Creature - Cat Fan Fast creature and vehicle spells you cast cost 1 less to cast. (Spells with double strike, first strike, flash and haste are fast.)2/2 Top Racer Creature - Human Pilot Flash First strike, haste 2/1 Racing Car Artifact - Vehicle Racing Car has flash as long as you control a fast creature or vehicle. (Creatures and vehicles with double strike, first strike, flash and haste are fast.)First strike Crew 2 (Tap any number of creatures you control with total power 2 or greater: This Vehicle becomes an artifact creature until end of turn.)3/3 Sports Report Drone Artifact Creature - Construct Flying Whenever one or more fast creatures or vehicles enter the battlefield under your control, draw a card. This ability triggers only once each turn. (Creatures and vehicles with double strike, first strike, flash and haste are fast.)2/2 Winners’ Podium Artifact , : Sacrifice Winners’ Podium: Exile the top three cards from your library. This turn, you may cast fast creature and vehicle spells from among them. (Spells with first strike, flash and haste are fast.), , Sacrifice Winners’ Podium: You gain 2 life for each fast creature or vehicle you control. Extraplanetary Racing Track Land : Add . : Add one mana of any color. Spend this mana only to cast a fast creature or vehicle spell or to activate an ability of a fast creature or vehicle. (Creatures and vehicles with double strike, first strike, flash and haste are fast.)Slow Death Sorcery Destroy all creatures and vehicles that aren’t fast. (Creatures and vehicles with double strike, first strike, flash and haste are fast.)I'm sorry if I exaggerated a bit with the ammont of cards. This theme has just so much to offer! EDIT: Thanks for the suggestion sdfkjgh. Totally forgot that there are other strike abilities out there.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jan 13, 2023 21:40:27 GMT
Flo00 : Why aren't double or triple strike included as being fast? Ok, I can understand why not triple strike, but double strike seems like it should've been a shoo-in. Flo00: Winners' Podium and the delicious cakePedobear ApprovesUnderdressed Cheerleader still don't mention double strike.
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Post by Idea on Jan 19, 2023 1:59:52 GMT
Alright, slightly late but I will be reviewing tomorrow!
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Post by Flo00 on Jan 19, 2023 18:50:44 GMT
Flo00 : Why aren't double or triple strike included as being fast? Ok, I can understand why not triple strike, but double strike seems like it should've been a shoo-in. Flo00: Winners' Podium and the delicious cakePedobear ApprovesUnderdressed Cheerleader still don't mention double strike. Thanks again! I changed the keyword in my file but those two had a hand written reminder...
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Post by Idea on Jan 20, 2023 1:13:18 GMT
I want to begin by with a statement regarding what will be judged here. The mechanics in this challenge involve groupings of card types - seeing as how varied these groups can be , it would be a herculean task to try to think about the balance of the groupings or an overall consideration of how the specific cards designed, and existing pool of cards would interact with each other, which is not to mention any future designs. As such, I will not look at it from such an angle, though if there any solid enough trend in the card types those may come up during the judging (if a group included slivers for instance, they all have a mechanically consistent design that I could be aware of without having to keep in mind potentially hundreds of cards). Besides that, I will mostly focus on reviewing the cards themselves, seeing as many of the mechanics under this challenge are essentially reclassifications ala modified. viriss {Spoiler}The closest card I could find at this cost to what your card does was Hateful Eidolon. Many other approximate examples were one blue and X costs and even then that usually meant every player drawing cards. With minimal set up, this could draw you two cards, and with a full set up it's one mana to draw five cards. Other than that, the mechanic is simple and nice, with a fitting name, but the card is severely undercosted. vizionarius {Spoiler}I really like that you took this different approach of using keyword abilities rather than creature types. While there's nothing wrong with going for the standard I do like to see this kind of variety and exploring the possibilities. I don't have a ton to say about Imitation Technique, Outclass, Odric's Apprentice or Elite's Dismissal, they are simple but solid cards that seem very fairly costed. I like the way they take advantage of your mechanic as well both counting and using the qualitative aspects. I would comment that Imitation Technique could probably use a "until end of turn" in there somewhere, and I love the flavor of Outclass. I also though Odric's Apprentice might be a reference to some other card, but scryfall tells me I'm mistaken. Talented Pupil and Combat Virtuoso are conceptually similar and just kind of made backwards to each other (one has all abilities and gains stats, the other has stats and gains abilities), and interesting for the same reason, the different ways the keywords in the skillset each interact with an increase in stats being different. Training Arena gets into some interesting territory as it can't help you build on the skillsket, however it can help maintain it. I might increase the ability cost by though, seeing as the ability is on a land and gives a permanent boost to the creature, but this is a matter that would likely need playtesting to be sure. Speaking of which... Stensia Feast Hall I don't know what to make of this card's mana cost. At minimum I think this is a Gaea's Anthem, and this might end up giving +5/+5. But then there are other cards that can also really build up which have less ability for your opponent to interact with the buff's conditions than this one such as Call for Unity and Commander's Insignia. Is this too cheap? Too expensive? Just the right price? Probably in heavy need of playtesting. sdfkjgh {Spoiler}I'm not sure of the bundling of werewolf there, as others have pointed out, but I've seen weirder flavor fails. On the other hand, the effect is a really cool necromancer-fitting one, that is flavorful and really captures the cooler aspects of that kind of archetype. I also really like this particular combination since I would personally love to see the undead word keywording for all that kind of bundle. ameisenmeister {Spoiler}I really like some of the things you did with the mechanic. I love the creativity of deciding to expand components of the mechanic which takes full and interesting advantage of the clause of needing to be specific in what elements are bundled, and Fauna Harmonizer referencing the menagerie not by counting but by checking if they have certain keywords is also a really interesting design avenue.
Redcape Rider: Neat choice of image, and I like the effect summoning a companion which happens to build up your menagerie.
Stampede Trumpeter: flexible, can be either used to take advantage of a menagerie of help to build a fuller one. Neat!
Oasis Falconer:As before mentioned, love that it gives itself a companion that builds up the menagerie, checking for scrying is an interesting effect and I love the fact this card expands what can be part of your menagerie.
Fauna Harmonizer: Love the idea of the effect, don't like how cheap this card is. Double strike, lifelink, deathtouch, indestructible, hexproof etc... on all creatures within the menagerie? Even just one or two is a pretty strong effect, but this can really get out of control and reason. Sanfonier of the Night {Spoiler}Seamonsters is a bit specific to Kiora, which in my view is both one of the weaknesses of this mechanic, but also one of its awesome parts, because it really is just that fitting for that character. Kiora Atua: Really wants to build itself up with first activated ability seeming like more of a failsafe in case you cant' keep seamonsters around. Or maybe it could help with mana? Since the types within the seamonster mechanic seem to generally consist of very expensive creatures, that does seem helpful, and that fact also helps balance her passive ability. I think you could reasonably pull the ultimate down to 6 though. Whelming Wave: I think this should be worded "Return all nonseamonster creatures to their owner's hands". Aside from that, it's just an adaptation of an existing card. Armada Kraken: At first glance this seemed really weak for the cost seeing as seamonsters aren't really played en masse, but because it copies itself it does get to a mediocre statline even without any support. Probably would've just made it a rare, don't think it has anything that specular or weird enough to call for Mythic. I wonder if the design was inspired by Armada Worm. Karin Voda, Arisen Depths: Giant monster go brrrr. In all seriousness, the card looks pretty good even if it's at such a level of expense that commenting on its balance is difficult, and its not doing anything so broken as to need it I think. I do love gargantuan though, it's a really great mechanic in name, flavor and design potential I think. emberfire17 {Spoiler}I think these are pretty much all solid designs that are simple enough not to leave much to elaborate on, for good and for ill. I think Roaring Reptile is a good reptile lord, if the name is a bit on the nose for the modern naming schemes, and Hostile Mother has a pretty interesting ability especially as it can help to deal with one of the problems with the timmy strategies that some of the types within reptile often have: Playing something big without immediately impacting the board can be almost a wasted turn or potentially cost you the game. This way each big threat you play can deal with something in the opponent's board. twintania {Spoiler}Aaaah, chess, the classic for bundles like this! Really good idea there! Doubled Pawn:Solid and flavorful card. Wish you'd made more pawns though, but that's no real criticism, it's just because this idea is cool and I think the baseline "footsoldiers" of a deck built around this would definitely be soldiers. Fianchetto Knight: Seeing as the last card is a chess situation, I wonder if this and other cards are also more chess terminology. I assume so given En Passant and Promotion are also such terms, though I must confess not being that familiar with them. I would probably avoid flanking in designs, it's a notoriously bad mechanic because of how confusing it turned out to be in practice. It's one of those rare instances were the rest of the card can't really fix it at all. Queen in Gambit / En Passant: Both good cards, well-designed and seemingly balanced. Not much to say. Promotion There's a bit of a flavor fail in not requiring a soldier, and I think this card is super undercosted seeing how it can just bring out a 10 mana creature of your choice from your deck. It's a little restricted to a creature of a certain type, but you presumably already built your deck around this. Lastly "merge" is not a term in MTG, as far as I can tell. I assume you mean something akin to mutate, but I'm not sure how the game functions in trying to mutate creatures without mutate into others without mutate, if it can do that. Zugzwang: Admittedly, at first I thought this card was just not translated, but it seems to be the right term even in English. It's a good spin on Worst Fears, but may need playtesting to see if it's not too easy to cast. Should probably have a self-exiling clause. Flo00 {Spoiler}As with vizionarius I like this take of not just using creature types, but going for other possibilities. I like how this mechanic has a really strong and intuitive flavor as well, and the aggressive overall mechanical design (with one exception) reinforces this. Fuel Can Carrier:Good way to promote a strategy with a white support, and excellent balancing by limiting it to once per turn. Would only change it to maybe be "one of those creatures" rather than any target creature. Rush to the Finish Line is nice and flexible, while Spare Tire is a neat card for letting you keep up some defenses even while being aggressive, especially by untapping first or double strike creatures which opponents may not want to block due to the one-sided trades. Underdressed Cheerleader also got a chuckle out of me, and is a good card to add to this kind of collection and speed up your casting, though I wonder if at that cost it's good enough for real use in an aggro deck (seeing as the turn after is already in the early midgame, even assuming you didn't miss any landdrops). Top Racer though is just a neat and simple design. Racing Car is similar to top racer, but the idea of just dropping a flash vehicle and crewing it has a lot of potential defensively, as well as getting out of certain effects. Overall, super neat card. Sports Report Drone feels a little out of place here among all this fast and aggro designs. Ignoring that though, SRD also seems to be a bit overpriced seeing as the ability can only trigger once per turn anyway. Winner's Podium I think this card would have been better as just an instant or sorcery with the first effect. The second effect again seems counter-intuitive to the kinds of strategies these designs are going for, nor particularly well combine with the fast mechanic. Extraplanetary Racing Track Maybe a little too strong seeing how easily aggro could probably take advantage of this far too early. I would add a minor drawback to the second ability that would be acceptable short term but could bite you long-term, like making this make you lose 1 life with the second activation. Slow Death Neat board wipe, not even sure if it needs to cost as much as it does seeing as these mechanics are more likely to be present in the opponent's board as well than many other similar conditions. Winner {Spoiler}It was tough decision, but in the end I think I must give this victory to vizionarius . The mechanic was well-thought of, creative in approach and I feel out of all of them was one of the best taken advantage of and explored in the card designs, which themselves were pretty excellent. The runner up is Flo00 with both good card designs and my favorite of the mechanics.
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Post by vizionarius on Jan 20, 2023 2:04:27 GMT
Thanks for the win Idea! Glad you liked the cards! You're right, I missed "until end of turn" on Imitation Technique. Other than Odric himself, I also had Serra Avenger in mind with Odric's Apprentice. And I initially had Stensia Feast Hall at before realizing that was likely broken, so went with , which also conveniently mirrors Akroma's Memorial.
Next: Create a mechanic for the keyword embark.
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Post by Idea on Jan 20, 2023 17:18:22 GMT
Ah, I knew it! Odric was a real card. I guess maybe I misspelled it or something when I searching?
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jan 21, 2023 1:26:39 GMT
So, I decided to add onto this set/block: Steadfast Engineer Creature--Dwarf Artificer Pilot Whenever you embark a Vehicle, put a +1/+1 counter on that Vehicle for each creature crewing it. (To embark a Vehicle means to crew it with two or more creatures.)2/4 Damned Voyager Legendary Artifact--Vehicle Trample, trample over planeswalkers, haste, deathtouch for planeswalkers, deathtouch for players Damned Voyager must be embarked by at least three creatures. Creatures crewing Damned Voyager have “Exile this creature at the beginning of the next end step.” Whenever Damned Voyager deals combat damage to a player, create X -1/1 black Shade creature tokens with “ : This creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn”, where X is the number of creatures that crewed Damned Voyager this turn. If Damned Voyager would leave the battlefield, exile it, then put it into your library third from the top instead. Crew 8 {10/10} Cruel Taskmaster Creature--Vedalken Wizard Pilot Each non-Pilot creature crews Vehicles as though its power was 1 less. Vehicles must be embarked. (To embark a Vehicle means to crew it with two or more creatures.)2/3 Trasgu Deckhands Creature--Goblin Soldier When you cast this spell, create a token copy of Trasgu Deckhands. Whenever two or more creatures named Trasgu Deckhands embark a Vehicle, until end of turn that Vehicle gains “Whenever this Vehicle deals combat damage to a player or planeswalker, create a token copy of Trasgu Deckhands.” (To embark a Vehicle means to crew it with two or more creatures.)2/1 Anjanas Spirit-Lifter Snow Creature--Elf Bard Whenever Anjanas Spirit-Lifter embarks a Vehicle, for each creature crewing that Vehicle, add one mana of any type. (To embark a Vehicle means to crew it with two or more creatures.)1/1 Why snow? Well, at the beginning of this stream of inspiration, I'd come up with this: Icebreaker Schooner Artifact--Vehicle Double strike, vigilance Whenever Icebreaker Schooner attacks, choose one— • Destroy up to one target nonland snow permanent. • Up to one target snow land is no longer snow. Crew 7 {3/7}
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Post by Idea on Jan 21, 2023 17:29:40 GMT
The next mechanic is Embark (wow, shocker) Embark: --- Cost: Exile this creature with 3 time counters on it. It gains suspend, and becomes the creature below as you cast it from exile. Embark only as a sorcery.As you activate this ability, either with a mana cost or by doing a certain action, your creatures embark on a journey. Perhaps an adventure or a life altering experience? Either way they come back changed, and often stronger. At the very least, they sure don't stay the same. Embark is similar to transforming sagas in the sense that it essentially flickers your creature, and it comes back different. Embark takes more time to accomplish this, since your creature needs to spend some time in their journey. There are some potential upsides and downsides to this procedure, namely through the removal of counters and the change in base power and toughness rather than just total power and toughness. It should be noted as well that, while in most circumstances the new form of the creature will be strictly better, there are cases where it may even be weaker than the original counterpart, such as to take advantage of one of the aforementioned properties or some other synergy. Also, whenever a creature that returned from embarking leaves the battlefield for whatever reason, when it returns it will be back to the original state, as per usual with this kind of mechanics. I decided to not make this mechanic a transforming mechanic as not every set is built with double-sided cards in mind or would be able to fit them. In particular, I think that the common hero association of this mechanic would make it fit with things like morph for some odyssey vibes. However, even outside of that one very specific case, in general I think it's a good thing to have access to more potential sets and designs it can fit in, even if at the sacrifice that just making it double-sided might bring. One more thing embark has going for it is that it can potentially take advantage of set up it creates in the original casting during its post-embark casting. The mechanic also comes with the word "embarks" referring to the exiling of the card, putting the time counters on it and giving it suspend. It's a useful word for referring for additional embark triggers, for referring to a creature itself embarking, or for cards that support creatures with the mechanic. Edit: Changed a few costs and reformated the ability to have "--" in the middle. Not sure if that is the most appropriate formatting, but considering the cost is sometimes an action it seemed like it would be clearer that way.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jan 21, 2023 20:36:07 GMT
Idea: Um, persist on a 1-toughness creature is really bad, unless you're actually going for multiple etbf triggers. Are you sure you didn't mean undying?
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Post by Idea on Jan 21, 2023 20:38:08 GMT
Idea: Um, persist on a 1-toughness creature is really bad, unless you're actually going for multiple etbf triggers. Are you sure you didn't mean undying? The creature no longer has 1 toughness once counter is put on them.
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Post by vizionarius on Jan 21, 2023 20:58:17 GMT
Idea : Um, persist on a 1-toughness creature is really bad, unless you're actually going for multiple etbf triggers. Are you sure you didn't mean undying? The creature no longer has 1 toughness once counter is put on them. So you embark it basically to remove the counter from the 3/3 variant of it?
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Post by Idea on Jan 21, 2023 21:21:54 GMT
The creature no longer has 1 toughness once counter is put on them. So you embark it basically to remove the counter from the 3/3 variant of it? Yes, essentially. Edit: Further elaboration/clarification -- Persist puts a -1/-1 counter on the creature after returning it from the battlefield from the GY. So if your creature already embarked and died, when they return due to persist they nonetheless return as the 3/3. Then, by embarking, you always exile the creature. At that moment the -1/-1 counter is, naturally, removed. There is never a scenario, within the card's own effects, where the -1/-1 counter from persist ends up on the 3/1 body.
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Post by sdfkjgh on Jan 22, 2023 19:28:43 GMT
So you embark it basically to remove the counter from the 3/3 variant of it? Yes, essentially. Edit: Further elaboration/clarification -- Persist puts a -1/-1 counter on the creature after returning it from the battlefield from the GY. So if your creature already embarked and died, when they return due to persist they nonetheless return as the 3/3. Then, by embarking, you always exile the creature. At that moment the -1/-1 counter is, naturally, removed. There is never a scenario, within the card's own effects, where the -1/-1 counter from persist ends up on the 3/1 body. That might cause a bit of confusion. Hell, I was confused by it, and that means that others will be too; it's just basic statistics. If this was in an actual set, you could include a clarification in the Individual Card Rulings, but the fact that there's so much potential for confusion, paired with the fact that this can continually be embarked to always come back, makes me think that it should be .
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Post by Idea on Jan 23, 2023 0:22:36 GMT
That might cause a bit of confusion. Hell, I was confused by it, and that means that others will be too; it's just basic statistics. If this was in an actual set, you could include a clarification in the Individual Card Rulings, but the fact that there's so much potential for confusion, paired with the fact that this can continually be embarked to always come back, makes me think that it should be . Regarding the always returning, I was modelling it on cards such as Cult Conscript or Reassembling Skeleton or Persistent Specimen. The card I made is definitely more complex than any of those, but I don't feel like on those grounds at least it is anything worth pushing to rare. I can still do it of course, I just don't think the component elements of the card itself call for it. And maybe it is confusing and needing a second look that might push it to rare, but... I'm honestly unsure of what exactly the confusion is. I mean the card is exiled by embark, so that right there removes the counter and in every similar mechanic, whether transform or level up or what else, the card is always on the front side or the top form as the default when it comes back. So it seems to be that the default way of the rules going would lead to the correct assumptions rather than the wrong ones. However, I suppose the best thing I can do is ask for a second opinion. If anyone would be so kind as to provide one, I would be grateful!
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moweda
3/3 Beast
Posts: 164
Favorite Card: Psychic Vortex
Color Alignment: Blue, Black, Red
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Post by moweda on Jan 23, 2023 2:05:49 GMT
Longwater Scout Creature - Bear Scout Embark 1 (During your upkeep, you may put a +1/+1 counter on this creature. If you do, at the beginning of your end step, if this creature didn't attack, sacrifice it.) A cub's first voyage is always alone. 1/1
Polar Raiders Creature - Bear Barbarian Embark 2 (During your upkeep, you may put two +1/+1 counters on this creature. If you do, at the beginning of your end step, if this creature didn't attack, sacrifice it.)They don't always come back. - Longwater Clan children's song2/3 Shipboard Mystic Creature - Bear Wizard Embark 1 (During your upkeep, you may put a +1/+1 counter on this creature. If you do, at the beginning of your end step, if this creature didn't attack, sacrifice it.) , remove a +1/+1 counter from ~: Tap or untap target creature. 1/2 Whiteback Captain Creature - Bear Barbarian First strike, vigilance, embark 2 (During your upkeep, you may put two +1/+1 counters on this creature. If you do, at the beginning of your end step, if this creature didn't attack, sacrifice it.)When a creature you control goes to the graveyard, you may move any number of counters on it to target creature. 3/3 This isn't a particularly blue or white mechanic, but the flavor of setting off on a ship plus the infusion of red might carry it. The faction is polar bear viking types, I guess. I wanted to capture the concept of setting off on a dangerous voyage. I have some color pie issues, but I think I'm happy enough now. Edited and added cards and commentary
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