jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Aug 21, 2018 0:35:53 GMT
Need some help with the wording of this one. Seems... clunky.
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bagz
1/1 Squirrel
Posts: 91
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Post by bagz on Aug 21, 2018 0:59:22 GMT
Need some help with the wording of this one. Seems... clunky.
Counter any single-target spell. or maybe Counter any spell that has only one target.
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Post by fluffydeathbringer on Aug 21, 2018 1:00:10 GMT
"Counter target spell with a single target." ( Swerve)
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Post by Tesagk on Aug 21, 2018 1:37:37 GMT
Is there a reason you can't give hexproof? Does this stop spells that force you to sacrifice?
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bagz
1/1 Squirrel
Posts: 91
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Post by bagz on Aug 21, 2018 1:44:08 GMT
Is there a reason you can't give hexproof? Does this stop spells that force you to sacrifice? im imagining single-target spells for things that are less likely to get hexproof. Artifacts, you, your planeswalkers, etc. also doesnt give all your creatures/perms hexproof till the end of the turn so your opponent can still push you to have to counter/bless again.
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jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Aug 24, 2018 1:41:15 GMT
Changed the name of the thread, so I have one place to put up cards to get assistance with. I've got a couple this time around I'd like some help with. First...
This started with the idea of a Tutor that put the spell directly into play, instead of your hand. Even I knew that was, perhaps, too powerful. So, I thought, maybe having to exile the Tutor might even it out. Finally, decided to make it an enchantment. I didn't want it to be able to be popped the same turn, so thought about trying to give it Summoning Sickness, but then remembered Suspend.
Next up is something with a new Keyword...
This is something from the story line of my new set. Think something similar to Prometheus from Greek myth. The new Keyword, as you should see, is "Fate". For those that don't want to click on the thumbnail, Fate says that you may Exile the top X cards of your library when the card goes to the graveyard from play (or dies, if its a creature). If you do, it comes back into play. Fate is supposed to represent Fate playing its hand in keeping its key players in play.
Please, feel free to critique, make wording suggestions, etc.
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Post by Jéské Couriano on Aug 24, 2018 1:49:00 GMT
Library Halls ) The way you were considering doing it would have been impossible as writ, but there are ways to do essentially what you intend to do within the rules; see Knowledge Exploitation and Stolen Goods for examples.
If an Instant or Sorcery would be forced onto the battlefield, the game negates the effect that would force them there and keeps them in the zone they were being pulled from. Also, in all cases, variable costs default to 0. (This is why it's a waste of time to try and cheat in cards with a variable cost.)
Fate ) Your example card isn't Fate's best foot forward, so to speak. The ability is niche enough that it's unlikely, even in Commander (where commander damage as a wincon is a thing) that it'd be used.
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jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Aug 24, 2018 2:04:59 GMT
Fate ) Your example card isn't Fate's best foot forward, so to speak. The ability is niche enough that it's unlikely, even in Commander (where commander damage as a wincon is a thing) that it'd be used. I plan on having Fate on story line significant permanents. This was my first attempt at putting it on a land, where the rest have been creatures.
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Post by Jéské Couriano on Aug 24, 2018 2:45:42 GMT
The thing with Fate is that it's really dependent on the usefulness of its abilities, if it's going to be on permanents with LP or sac effects. There needs to be a big enough carrot to make getting swatted with the stick worthwhile.
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jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Aug 24, 2018 14:14:01 GMT
Library Halls ) The way you were considering doing it would have been impossible as writ, but there are ways to do essentially what you intend to do within the rules; see Knowledge Exploitation and Stolen Goods for examples.
If an Instant or Sorcery would be forced onto the battlefield, the game negates the effect that would force them there and keeps them in the zone they were being pulled from. Also, in all cases, variable costs default to 0. (This is why it's a waste of time to try and cheat in cards with a variable cost.)
I just realized that there may have been some confusion here, very possibly on my part. The X mentioned in this is the CMC of the instant or sorcery that you are getting. Are you saying that, because of the variable cost, it would negate the effect?
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Post by Jéské Couriano on Aug 24, 2018 21:27:51 GMT
Library Halls ) The way you were considering doing it would have been impossible as writ, but there are ways to do essentially what you intend to do within the rules; see Knowledge Exploitation and Stolen Goods for examples.
If an Instant or Sorcery would be forced onto the battlefield, the game negates the effect that would force them there and keeps them in the zone they were being pulled from. Also, in all cases, variable costs default to 0. (This is why it's a waste of time to try and cheat in cards with a variable cost.)
I just realized that there may have been some confusion here, very possibly on my part. The X mentioned in this is the CMC of the instant or sorcery that you are getting. Are you saying that, because of the variable cost, it would negate the effect? No - I am saying that the X would be treated as 0 for both grabbing and casting the spell.
X only has a nonzero value on the stack, and only if hardcast.
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impspiritguide
2/2 Zombie
Favorite Color: Brown
Posts: 129
Set Hub: http://magicseteditor.boards.net/thread/256/pokemon-thread
Formerly Known As: Imp Elemental Spirit Guide
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Post by impspiritguide on Aug 25, 2018 1:12:46 GMT
1st: Did Jynx316 ninja edit the image of Library Halls because I can't see what is wrong with it (and I trust that Jeske Couriano is better at rules wording than myself), currently it appears like a combination of Chord of Calling and the Stolen Goods he mentioned. 2nd: I like the flavor on Fate, but depending upon how you are planning on using the cards for this set I would suggest that you make it return the card to the players hand instead of play. If the card is for a Draft or Cube or Set Constructed only then there shouldn't be a problem (as long as you don't make one yourself). If you are planning on your cards see constructed play with the general card pool then returning items to play can be too potent especially for a land (thereby circumventing the 1 land per turn rule). I'm not sure about Modern but for any of the eternal formats (including Commander) it would be quite broken. Just imagine Commander, having an Omnath, Locus of Rage commander out then a card such as your Pinnacle of Marek-Thoth becomes deadly even if the only Legendary card target is your own Omnath. Likewise in constructed if you had a creature with Fate on it then you could Shallow Grave the creature into permanent play. There are probably worse things that could be done, this is only off the top of my head for now. Fortunately as this is a fan set you are allowed to determine how you want your set to be used. But if you plan on including it with the general card pool, be aware that Fate is definitely a Johnny ability that WILL be broken as you have written it.
EDIT: Just realized that for the land at least you might be able to re-word it as a replacement ability. Fate X: If this permanent would be sent to the graveyard from play you may exile three cards from the top of your library instead. This permanent remains in play.
EDIT2 : Another option would be to limit the return from the graveyard to a triggered event. Fate X: If this permanent would be sent to the graveyard from play you may exile this card and three cards from the top of your library instead. Return this card to play at the beginning of your next upkeep.
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Post by Jéské Couriano on Aug 25, 2018 2:55:37 GMT
Impspiritguide ) He didn't. He explained that his original plan would be to put an int/sor from the library to play, but he wasn't sure if that was too powerful. I was clarifying that the way he was originally going about it was impossible but that there were ways to make something like that work, citing precedent for it. Library Halls was his Plan B.
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impspiritguide
2/2 Zombie
Favorite Color: Brown
Posts: 129
Set Hub: http://magicseteditor.boards.net/thread/256/pokemon-thread
Formerly Known As: Imp Elemental Spirit Guide
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Post by impspiritguide on Aug 25, 2018 13:24:57 GMT
Thanks Jeske, I missed that part of the conversation.
I think it would be possible to do what he wanted, based upon Panglacial Wurm you could write "Search your library for an instant or sorcery card, give that card "While you're searching your library, you may cast this card from your library."" In it's own way I think this is more elegant assuming my wording works.
Although if he is just looking to include the color cost of the CMC you could mimic Ice Cave (one of my more favorite cards). "X, Exile Library Halls: Search your library for an instant or sorcery with mana cost X, (mana cost includes color)."
I do have to make sure that Jynx316 is aware that the enchantment can't be dispelled while it is suspended, so there is still no way to stop the enchantment from being "popped" short of some sort of counterspell/counter-ability. If this is why he wanted it to be an enchantment, rather than just creating a table threat, then that didn't help.
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jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Aug 25, 2018 13:53:15 GMT
I do have to make sure that Jynx316 is aware that the enchantment can't be dispelled while it is suspended, so there is still no way to stop the enchantment from being "popped" short of some sort of counterspell/counter-ability. If this is why he wanted it to be an enchantment, rather than just creating a table threat, then that didn't help. I was not aware of that, but that wasn't the reason I put Suspend on it. It was more to imply something like the research it took to FIND the spell the were wanting to cast, and a way to cast it. Just to fit in with the whole "Library Halls" name of it.
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impspiritguide
2/2 Zombie
Favorite Color: Brown
Posts: 129
Set Hub: http://magicseteditor.boards.net/thread/256/pokemon-thread
Formerly Known As: Imp Elemental Spirit Guide
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Post by impspiritguide on Aug 25, 2018 14:11:50 GMT
Are you planning on adding other cards with Suspend to the set?
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Arix
1/1 Squirrel
Posts: 54
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Post by Arix on Aug 25, 2018 14:20:38 GMT
Although if he is just looking to include the color cost of the CMC you could mimic Ice Cave (one of my more favorite cards). "X, Exile Library Halls: Search your library for an instant or sorcery with mana cost X, (mana cost includes color)." Another for this possibility could be to simply remove the X all together, along with "without paying its mana cost". "Exile Library Halls: Search your library for an instant or sorcery card. You may cast that card. Then shuffle your library. (You must pay all costs for that card.)"
As for the fate mechanic, it seems super broken. Look at Arc-Slogger, and keep in mind that exiling cards from your library really isn't a cost until you're in danger of actually being completely milled out. Dredge is another comparable mechanic - obviously fate is nowhere near that level of broken, for several reasons, but it is a comparison. There are a few possible fixes - returning the card to your hand rather than the battlefield would go a long way towards it. Putting it on top of your library is another option. Another option - although this may be getting into the realm of overcomplicated - would be to exile the top X cards of your library, and only return the card if one of the exiled cards has some quality, like sharing a card type with the permanent in question.
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jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Aug 25, 2018 15:19:09 GMT
Are you planning on adding other cards with Suspend to the set? I'm thinking of it. Possibly enchantments for the other colors as well. Haven't quite decided yet.
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jynx316
2/2 Zombie
Luck? It's just a roll of the dice...
Posts: 107
Favorite Set: Urza's Saga or the entirety of Invasion Block
Color Alignment: White, Green
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Post by jynx316 on Aug 25, 2018 21:18:08 GMT
Just had an idea for a Luck mechanic. Now, keep in mind, this was LITERALLY just thought of. As always, wording the actual mechanic is what I need help with.
Luck <stat> X - When you cast this (creature/spell), declare that you are casting a Luck spell. Your opponent decides to increase or decrease the <stat> by X.
I picture this as being a catch all, with just the stat being adjusted and the number its adjusted by being different. So, we could have a Luck Power 3, a Luck CMC 2, or a Luck Toughness 1. As your opponent wouldn't know what stat is being adjusted, they wouldn't know if raising it will harm you or not. I think it could be a fun mechanic, but I'm also more of a kitchen table player...
Thoughts?
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Post by fluffydeathbringer on Aug 25, 2018 22:13:50 GMT
Just had an idea for a Luck mechanic. Now, keep in mind, this was LITERALLY just thought of. As always, wording the actual mechanic is what I need help with. Luck <stat> X - When you cast this (creature/spell), declare that you are casting a Luck spell. Your opponent decides to increase or decrease the <stat> by X. I picture this as being a catch all, with just the stat being adjusted and the number its adjusted by being different. So, we could have a Luck Power 3, a Luck CMC 2, or a Luck Toughness 1. As your opponent wouldn't know what stat is being adjusted, they wouldn't know if raising it will harm you or not. I think it could be a fun mechanic, but I'm also more of a kitchen table player... Thoughts? revealing the spell is the first step in the process of casting a spell, so this just straightup doesn't work (also CMC isn't an alterable property, so this double doesn't work)
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impspiritguide
2/2 Zombie
Favorite Color: Brown
Posts: 129
Set Hub: http://magicseteditor.boards.net/thread/256/pokemon-thread
Formerly Known As: Imp Elemental Spirit Guide
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Post by impspiritguide on Aug 25, 2018 22:42:49 GMT
1st: I don't think that working out the mechanics for Luck as you want it to be will be worth the pain and agony to figure out how to do (it is going to be very complicated).
History and possibilities:
There are a number of cards that allow an opponent or target opponent to make a choice. As a general rule most of these cards haven't been considered fun mechanics by most people, because you are giving a portion of your turn to another player so either the card is potent regardless of what the opponent chooses like Fact or Fiction or the choice your opponent chooses is reduces the effectiveness of the card beyond the casting cost such as Browbeat. This is just like the cards that rely upon coin flips such as Mana Clash, there are a small select group of players that like such things but generally they are not considered fun by the majority of players.
I know of none that do so without giving the player knowledge of what they are bidding on.
BUT
There is a keyword Mechanic specifically designed to create mystery and that is morph. The key to making morph work is that the other player has no notification as to what is face-down except the colors you are playing with in your deck. If you wish Luck to work then you will need to follow suite on this as well. You will need to make a standard casting cost for "Luck" spells, and then to vary the actual cost to vary based upon spell potency you would need some other way to activate the spell.
I don't know where to go from there but be aware that Morph is probably one of the most complicated mechanics that Wizards has come up with so replicating portions of it aren't for the faint of heart.
Personally if I really wanted to do what you are suggesting I wouldn't create a new mechanic, I would make a cycle of morph cards that include your opponent choosing Up or Down (or Left or Right, but keep the choice binary) when the morph effect is activated. The card would have different stats or effects depending upon which your opponent chose. Especially if the cycle used X CMC effects this should achieve your desired result.
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Post by Jéské Couriano on Aug 26, 2018 9:13:26 GMT
Personally if I really wanted to do what you are suggesting I wouldn't create a new mechanic, I would make a cycle of morph cards that include your opponent choosing Up or Down (or Left or Right, but keep the choice binary) when the morph effect is activated. The card would have different stats or effects depending upon which your opponent chose. Especially if the cycle used X CMC effects this should achieve your desired result. If you're using Morph this should be a modal thing, nonkeyworded, upon flipping it faceup. And again, if you must let the opponent choose, the choices must be a Morton's fork for them. (In other words, all choices need to hurt the opponent's board state in some way.)
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tarvoc
1/1 Squirrel
Posts: 56
Color Alignment: Blue
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Post by tarvoc on Dec 10, 2018 22:09:03 GMT
Can other people ask questions here, too?
I have a more general question about card design: In which color would you place cards that make a player skip a turn? This hasn't really been done before, afaik the only card so far is Stranglehold, and that isn't even really an example, because it only affects extra turns. I realize the mechanic is very similar to taking an extra turn in most cases, which would put it in almost by default - but I could also see it in or . What do you think?
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Post by shiftyhomunculus on Dec 11, 2018 0:28:34 GMT
There's already a card that functionally skips a player's turn: Time Stop on their upkeep. I'd say that lands the effect solidly in blue, as outside multiplayer it's not really distinct enough from taking an extra turn to warrant reclassification. Maybe there's a case for it to be secondary in black based on Sorin Markov's ultimate and Worst Fears being turn skips in their worst cases. That being said, general design-related questions are probably better placed in the main Card Clinic. (I'm aware that color pie isn't explicitly within the remit per the original post, so I've amended it to include that.)
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