MonkeyChewToy
1/1 Squirrel
Back in the Saddle
Posts: 52
Favorite Card: Darksteel Relic
Favorite Set: Battlebond
Color Alignment: Blue, Green
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Post by MonkeyChewToy on Oct 11, 2021 14:20:51 GMT
{Text}Fen Druid Creature - Zombie Satyr Druid When Fen Druid enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a Swamp card and/or a card named Corrupt, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle. 2/2 Well… it has a reference, but not a self reference.
I think the rules allow for this kind of entry. I know it's what I started with before I got carried away making a bunch of them.
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the5lacker
3/3 Beast
Posts: 198
Favorite Card: The Reality Chip
Favorite Set: Kaladesh
Color Alignment: White, Blue
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Post by the5lacker on Oct 11, 2021 14:55:11 GMT
kefke : Any particular reason you decided your seven mana meld enchantment payoff should be destroyed by an opponent casting Concordant Crossroads? Also why is Orsval... completely worthless? Even Graf Rats is a better member of a Meld pair. First of all, and I mean this as politely as I possibly can...with as rude and outright hostile as you have been to me in the past, I am no longer particularly interested in your feedback, as it's begun to feel more like a grudge than constructive criticism. As for your questions, "dies to legacy World Spells" is pretty much the same argument as "dies to removal", but worse. At least most decks have a reason to run removal. In any format where the likes of Concordant Crossroads is legal, players will have much better options to put in their deck, including better options to run as counters to a World-meld (such as literally any other form of removal). I could make my own "Masterpiece" supertype that serves the same functional role as World but doesn't interact with old cards, and I could even make a few tweaks to the "Masterpiece Rule" where I think the World Rule could be improved on. However, I see no need to reinvent the wheel when World already does what I want, barring some fairly trivial edge cases (and in any case if my intent is to show that World could be used in a more interesting and satisfying way than how it was originally, throwing it out and starting over isn't the most auspicious way to begin).
As for Orsval, he's useless by design. He is, simply put, a key to a lock. His intended use case is to cast after Leonette is already on the board, to cast Painted Vale for 3 and a delay. Keeping him alive for a turn is the final hurdle to getting the enchantment out. Maybe that's not to your taste, but in the original, I judged that the meld was strong enough to justify one of the cards needed to make it being objectively bad, and in the new version I saw no reason to change it. He's not an actively detrimental card, just an inefficient use of mana for anything but getting the meld out. Which is right at the balance point where I wanted him to be.
And as an aside, the description "seven mana meld enchantment", while technically accurate, is a bit of a misrepresentation. There are few situations where I could see someone playing it outright at seven mana. The far more likely play would be to play knights on any or all of the first three turns, Leonnette on turn 4, and Orsval on turn 5, assuming both cards arrive on-tempo (or you're playing Commander), and no ramp. For one thing, players are going to want to hold something back for protecting Orsval, or at least give the impression that they are.
If find it interesting that at no point did you actually answer my question about why it's a World Enchantment (a depreciated card type) in particular, you just went "Well there's nothing saying I can't!" Which... obviously? I was just curious if there was any particular reasoning for it. You have successfully confirmed for me that there is, in fact, no reason for it. Thank you for satisfying my curiosity.
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Post by kefke on Oct 11, 2021 16:01:06 GMT
First of all, and I mean this as politely as I possibly can...with as rude and outright hostile as you have been to me in the past, I am no longer particularly interested in your feedback, as it's begun to feel more like a grudge than constructive criticism. As for your questions, "dies to legacy World Spells" is pretty much the same argument as "dies to removal", but worse. At least most decks have a reason to run removal. In any format where the likes of Concordant Crossroads is legal, players will have much better options to put in their deck, including better options to run as counters to a World-meld (such as literally any other form of removal). I could make my own "Masterpiece" supertype that serves the same functional role as World but doesn't interact with old cards, and I could even make a few tweaks to the "Masterpiece Rule" where I think the World Rule could be improved on. However, I see no need to reinvent the wheel when World already does what I want, barring some fairly trivial edge cases (and in any case if my intent is to show that World could be used in a more interesting and satisfying way than how it was originally, throwing it out and starting over isn't the most auspicious way to begin).
As for Orsval, he's useless by design. He is, simply put, a key to a lock. His intended use case is to cast after Leonette is already on the board, to cast Painted Vale for 3 and a delay. Keeping him alive for a turn is the final hurdle to getting the enchantment out. Maybe that's not to your taste, but in the original, I judged that the meld was strong enough to justify one of the cards needed to make it being objectively bad, and in the new version I saw no reason to change it. He's not an actively detrimental card, just an inefficient use of mana for anything but getting the meld out. Which is right at the balance point where I wanted him to be.
And as an aside, the description "seven mana meld enchantment", while technically accurate, is a bit of a misrepresentation. There are few situations where I could see someone playing it outright at seven mana. The far more likely play would be to play knights on any or all of the first three turns, Leonnette on turn 4, and Orsval on turn 5, assuming both cards arrive on-tempo (or you're playing Commander), and no ramp. For one thing, players are going to want to hold something back for protecting Orsval, or at least give the impression that they are.
If find it interesting that at no point did you actually answer my question about why it's a World Enchantment (a depreciated card type) in particular, you just went "Well there's nothing saying I can't!" Which... obviously? I was just curious if there was any particular reasoning for it. You have successfully confirmed for me that there is, in fact, no reason for it. Thank you for satisfying my curiosity. Well, you didn't actually ask why it was a World supertype, just made a remark about how it dies to Concordant Crossroads. However, I actually did answer why. As I said, my intent was to show that the World supertype can be used in a more fun and interesting way than its original incarnation. In other words, I'm working bottom-up on this one, which meant addressing the flaws in the original use.
Firstly, that for something so fragile, the cards were largely underwhelming. World is more strict than Legendary, so it should get effects at least as strong. No question that Painted Vale is a stronger effect than most (if not all) old Worlds.
Secondly, that the "World Rule" is by default not very interactive. Just like with the old Planeswalker Rule, it comes down to whoever could play their card second. I felt that the best way I could work around that was with Meld. Doing that creates a scenario where getting out a World permanent requires set-up, and the other player knows that it's coming. It gives the player who already has a World out a chance to defend it, which makes the possibility of one World knocking out another a more dynamic experience for both players.
Which means that your question is actually backwards. I didn't make my Meld a World, I made my World a Meld.
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Post by Daij_Djan on Oct 11, 2021 16:09:17 GMT
Almost forgot posting my own entry.. Pumbaa is a slightly updated design from an older non-CotW challenge to work with the flavorfully fitting Strixhaven tokens, whereas Timon is completely new:
This thread is now closed, the poll can be found here. And here's the next challenge!
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