|
|
Post by sdfkjgh on Aug 18, 2021 19:39:36 GMT
foureyesisafish: Are you still in torpor? Should we continue on without you?
|
|
foureyesisafish
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 388
Favorite Set: Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
|
Post by foureyesisafish on Aug 19, 2021 0:04:20 GMT
I think a lot of people are overreacting these cards. This isn't the first time that magic's been split, guys. We've had format-exclusive cards for a WHILE, especially in regards to commander. I don't see this as anything different asides from having really nifty digital-only tech tacked on.
|
|
|
|
Post by ZephyrPhantom on Aug 19, 2021 1:50:09 GMT
Little hard moving a rotten arm and a nonexistent mouth here, but I don't disagree with foureyesisafish, actually.Something I was hoping to offer as a point was - if every Digital-only card was replaced by a variation of Scorching Spear (and there are a lot of those), what changes?
|
|
foureyesisafish
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 388
Favorite Set: Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
|
Post by foureyesisafish on Aug 19, 2021 13:06:57 GMT
Little hard moving a rotten arm and a nonexistent mouth here, but I don't disagree with foureyesisafish, actually.Something I was hoping to offer as a point was - if every Digital-only card was replaced by a variation of Scorching Spear (and there are a lot of those), what changes?
 Instant Shocking Barrage deals one damage to any target. Conjure a Shocking Barrage into your hand. It gets "At the beginning of your end step, discard this card" until it leaves your hand. |
|
|
|
Post by sdfkjgh on Aug 19, 2021 20:22:16 GMT
Y'all motherfuckers acting like you forgot about Drea de Matteo!
Even before then, there were already format-specific cards. The real issue is, as I see it, one that goes much deeper: We're seeing all these rapid-fire changes to the game, most of which have proven to be to the detriment, all at the altar of increased profits for hasbro.
Even someone with zero points in PER can see that this is following a well-established pattern: the vultures fly in, make drastic changes that temporarily boost profits, then when the bubble bursts, the victimized company either goes completely bankrupt, or their good/service will no longer be offered. This has happened time and again with other companies, and we can only hope it doesn't with WotC & Magic. We're seeing all these changes, we're panicking slightly, so we're choosing (perhaps a bit rashly) to draw a line in the sand here, to say "thus far, and no further!", "On ne passe pas!"
Now, I realize that this is at the extreme doom & gloom end of the Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism, without even going into the new cards and mechanics themselves. I happen to like them. They're really interesting, they at least partially solve the shuffling problem (although, they're digital-only, where shuffling is no longer a problem, so...), and they have at least the potential to be a net good for the game.
That said, we all know this is a rather blatant attempt to get summadat Hearthstone money, but this just further illuminates a problem of Wizards': They're constantly operating on a 2-year lag, so any attempt to play follow-the-leader is only gonna seem even more blatantly pathetic by the time it comes out. To make matters worse, the one thing that all the other companies in the industry envied, the one thing that we had that no one else did, the thing that drove innovation in gameplay for over 25 years, WotC for some reason starved into implosion, then did away with completely on their end, to be replaced with something™ soon!©® (so they claim), for "reasons".* The DCI's tournament structure was the envy of the entire industry, the thing all others looked up to and wanted to be, and yet WotC just said "Nah, fam! Fugeddabout all that!" Someone definitely should've been fired over these decisions.
This actually provides a perfect segue into our next question, from me: More and more, Wizards has been embracing and absorbing Commander as the premier, and primary, format. From the discontinuation of the Planeswalker and Deck Series decks, to the recent bungles with Standard power levels, to the forced implosion of the professional competitive scene, it seems as though WotC is abandoning everything in favor of Commander. In light of this, how soon before we see Magic become 100% Commander, and do you think there will ever be a Commander pro tour?
*I'd do an extended pun about WotC doing things for raisons &/or raisins, but since they're not a French company, no matter how contrarily they may act at times, I'll just let the matter slide. |
|
|
|
Post by ZephyrPhantom on Aug 19, 2021 21:16:46 GMT
I feel like it's worth pointing out that none of the digital exclusive cards seem particularly overpowered, hence why I offered Scorching Spear as a point of comparison. At best I feel like some kind of historic Elves deck might be able to use Skyshroud Lookout and Freyalise, Skyshroud Partisan, but aside from Skyshroud Lookout I think the majority of cards that exploit digital features don't really feel like they'd be able to make a lasting impact even if they became legal in the larger card pool. Having seen Tome of the Infinite and Pool of Vigorous Growth (which, incidentally, was based on Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Avatar...) in action for example they seem to be too random for their own good and you'd rather just run an efficient finisher, controlling enchantment, or Planeswalker that is more reliable in what it does.[/color]
I do agree the cards themselves aren't so much the problem as what they represent - I don't mind WoTC printing all sorts of random cards that are mostly jank with 1-2 gems of note on a regular basis, it's exciting to see what they can play with so long as the power level for 'experiments' stays low (and thus doesn't really impact the longterm health of the game as a whole) and more overcosted cards = more possible redundant effects for Commander usually. That all said, I don't envy anyone who has to try to keep up with the state of how competitive play is organized, LGSes that have to figure out how many boosters of a certain kind they want to order, and the many other logistical changes that have been happening in the background ever since Arena was put on the map. It's unfortunate that we as a panel don't seem to be really experienced in this area and thus can only offer limited insight.
(Sorry, it's been busy in real life, staying in-character is difficult. Just going to answer what I can.) Don't know. You could argue Magic is 100% Commander already, since every set deliberately has Legendary designs made for Commander and MaRo has stated recently that Legendary design in any set nowadays is often considered relative to whether it'd be a good Commander or not. At the same time, you could point out that Arena is still being primarily marketed for still Standard and Historic, and that we're getting Modern Horizons sets for a reason. I think this part of question is too reductive and doesn't really account for what WoTC other's attempts to sell things, such as those Historic digital only cards everyone seems so excited about.Unlikely. If you've spent some time in cEDH you'll know that there's a lot of friction between the idea of Commander as a casual format where you can run anything you want and Commander taken seriously as a Vintage-esque format where everyone is seeking to drop some of the most powerful cards and combos in the game's history ( Flash's ban is a good example here as from what I recall it was motivated solely by the Flash-Hulk combo in cEDH as opposed to anything in EDH.) On the Commander end, "Rule 0" is already a fairly common measures to to common things like the Nephilim or Brothers Yamazaki as commanders or to do more niche things like allow silver bordered cards into the cardpool. Commander's selling pitch is very much dependent on being able to jam together whatever cards you like and have a good social experience - trying to sell it as the main official tournament format sort of spits in the face of that. (Would you do 1v1 Commander? 4 FFA Commander? How would you evaluate politics relative to cards? There's too many casual-appeal elements that would clash with the expectation of how a competitive event is supposed to be run.)
|
|
ArkiThe7th
1/1 Squirrel
Any plant is edible if you’re not a coward.
Posts: 82
Favorite Card: Wee Dragonauts
Favorite Set: Pauper Masters (wait a second...)
Color Alignment: Blue, Red
|
Post by ArkiThe7th on Aug 23, 2021 13:19:11 GMT
Contrary to the previous one, I don’t really have any strong opinions on this question. I don’t think we’ll ever reach 100%, but it does seem like we’re getting close. I mainly play pauper, which isn’t really supported by WotC already, so as a player, I don’t mind if they’re cutting ties with some other formats. I agree with ZephyrPhantom that a commander pro tour seems inconvenient and hard to plan. We kinda saw an example of that with brawl, and that crashed and burned. I don’t think WotC wants to repeat that anytime soon. I think WotC wants commander to just be the casual and semi-beginner-friendly paper format. I can’t imagine any competitions in the future that don’t go horribly. |
|
|
|
Post by Daij_Djan on Aug 23, 2021 18:43:21 GMT
As a closing statement to my previous question: Yeah, it's more about the specific type of effects coming to Arena for me personally (as mentioned digital only cards aren't really new anyway). The powerlevel is indeed (thankfully) rather low – I think Davriel's Withering will see the most play btw – but I doubt it'll be that way next time (because there will be a next time for sure).. Concerning the Hearthstone money: Yeah, obviously WotC wants their share of that as well – but I think it's worth pointing out how that game isn't actually doing that well nowadays, and how in particular too many random effects are often mentioned as one of the big reasons for this  Concerning our new question, I honestly don't really have anything new to say sionce I 100% agree with ZephyrPhantom's take on the matter. One thing I could maybe add: You could argue Magic is 100% Commander already, since every set deliberately has Legendary designs made for Commander and MaRo has stated recently that Legendary design in any set nowadays is often considered relative to whether it'd be a good Commander or not. Also the most recent “arcuns as uncommon legendaries” concept nicely fits into that argument. |
|
|
|
Post by sdfkjgh on Aug 23, 2021 21:34:31 GMT
|
|
foureyesisafish
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 388
Favorite Set: Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
|
Post by foureyesisafish on Aug 24, 2021 11:55:41 GMT
double no from me. It would take a game designed around it to make competitive commander possible or even look like commander.
|
|
|
|
Post by sdfkjgh on Aug 24, 2021 17:01:13 GMT
EDIT: I just realized I never gave my answer for the previous question. Q1, 2023, WotC will announce that they're officially moving to 100% Commander, all day, errday, just in time for the worldwide reopening of the world, Q2, 2023, our new, post-Pandemic, full herd-immunity reality. And much like every other attempt at reopening during Stephen King's prophetic fever-dream come to life, this one will turn out to be too early, as a new variant will once again sweep the globe. The most tragic thing about it, in terms of Magic, will be the fact that with the Q1 announcement, they proclaim that they were rolling back ALL changes that let to the Pro Tour implosion, for the new Q2 Commander Pro Tour. Yes, that's right they were planning a full revert, and of course some people will see the unfortunate timing as evidence that hasbro was researching gain-of-function testing for the new variant, and was responsible for its release.
And wow, is that the most 2021 thing I've ever written!
Well, we had a Fifth Question from dangerousdice , but since they're missing, presumed tortured to death, I'll just fill in with one I had in reserve: If Bill Nye, the Science Guy plays Magic, what psychographic profile do you think he'd be, and what decks do you think he'd gravitate towards? |
|
|
|
Post by ZephyrPhantom on Aug 24, 2021 21:49:08 GMT
I predict consistent appearances of Presence of the Master and Eureka. Realistically I think someone like him would play some kind of spell combo like Izzet Storm or maybe something that does a lot of playing during everyone's turns like Simic Flash. |
|
|
|
Post by Daij_Djan on Aug 24, 2021 21:50:05 GMT
Honestly, I know almost nothing about Bill Nye - never watched his show either - except he apparantely completely stole his show's concept from the good old Professor Proton.
|
|
|
|
Post by sdfkjgh on Aug 27, 2021 17:11:18 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Daij_Djan on Aug 27, 2021 21:31:55 GMT
Just a small note as I've just finished my Arena daylies for today: Yeah, powerlevel of Historic has been raised quite a bit - used the same two decks as I usually do and got wrecked over and over again. Freyalise, Skyshroud Partisan and Static Discharge have been the only "Hearthstone" cards I've played against so far - and I'm afraid I'll see them again in the future as well  |
|
ArkiThe7th
1/1 Squirrel
Any plant is edible if you’re not a coward.
Posts: 82
Favorite Card: Wee Dragonauts
Favorite Set: Pauper Masters (wait a second...)
Color Alignment: Blue, Red
|
Post by ArkiThe7th on Aug 29, 2021 11:15:15 GMT
Never seen any of Bill Nye’s work, but going from what I’ve heard, I think he would play a Niv Mizzet commander deck. It would be stacked full of big card draw cards and probably some take an extra turn cards. Those are my thoughts with close to 0 experience with Bill Nye. Just a small note as I've just finished my Arena daylies for today: Yeah, powerlevel of Historic has been raised quite a bit - used the same two decks as I usually do and got wrecked over and over again. Freyalise, Skyshroud Partisan and Static Discharge have been the only "Hearthstone" cards I've played against so far - and I'm afraid I'll see them again in the future as well I’m assuming they weren’t much fun to play against, then? |
|
|
|
Post by Daij_Djan on Aug 31, 2021 20:35:22 GMT
I’m assuming they weren’t much fun to play against, then? Freyalise looked strong but not overpowered (me not liking its mechanics aside) - then again, me dropping a Questing Beast helped for obvious reasons The Discharge was used against me in a UR spellslinger deck - card draw + looting and graveyard recursion easily turned it from the first sorcery spell Lightning Strike into a literal game-ender. I died by being shot for 7 or 8 to the face. Since that day I only played once more for time reasons - and only three matches against "older" decks. Though the infinite Soul Warden + Heliod, Sun-Crowned + Scurry Oak combo the last opponent assembled was hilarious
(Also sorry for having started a small side-dialog while we are already in our closing question - but I think it's worth it ) |
|
|
|
Post by sdfkjgh on Aug 31, 2021 21:20:04 GMT
|
|
foureyesisafish
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 388
Favorite Set: Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
|
Post by foureyesisafish on Sept 1, 2021 17:32:48 GMT
Honestly, I have no clue. I guess he would play something with U though.
|
|
|
|
Post by sdfkjgh on Sept 1, 2021 18:24:51 GMT
Bill Nye is the only person who could out-MaRo MaRo, be it enthusiasm, inappropriate loudness of inside/conversational voice, willingness to educate others, etc. So it's only fitting to think that he'd be an Izzet or Jeskai Johnny/Social Gamer Timmy.
And with that, another episode comes to a close. I'd like to thank the members of our panel who are still alive, Daij_Djan , ArkiThe7th , foureyesisafish , and the panel member who is mimicking a still alive state, in a gross mockery of the natural order, ZephyrPhantom . A moment of silence for our missing, presumed dead panel member, dangerousdice .
Well, that was fun. Who's for Chinese?
Join us next time, where we'll be who knows where in the Multiverse!
Ral & Teferi: We're all still stuck here, remember?
Well, shit. Guess I better thank our lovely and gracious host, that bitchKels, Fight Fixer.
Mebbe by the time you lot have said your goodbyes, I'll have come up with a brilliant plan. |
|
ArkiThe7th
1/1 Squirrel
Any plant is edible if you’re not a coward.
Posts: 82
Favorite Card: Wee Dragonauts
Favorite Set: Pauper Masters (wait a second...)
Color Alignment: Blue, Red
|
Post by ArkiThe7th on Sept 3, 2021 9:21:50 GMT
Whatever they put into me is finally wearing off… I don’t remember anything except yelling something about Hearthstone and Jumpstart before passing out.
I assume this was a good episode… Till next time.
p.s. I’m looking forward to some hot takes on Fortnite magic cards next episode.
|
|
|
|
Post by sdfkjgh on Sept 6, 2021 14:59:17 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by ZephyrPhantom on Sept 6, 2021 15:11:00 GMT
(Sorry, crunch time, give me a day or two.)
|
|
|
|
Post by ZephyrPhantom on Sept 7, 2021 13:05:42 GMT
Thanks for having us I suppose even if I didn't get to use the full eldritch-yness and snark of my ominous horrifying existence. That's just how 'real life' works, I suppose.
Haha, real life, what's that? The only thing that's real should be card games.
Speaking of card games, I think I'll be checking out early. --CRASH--
Good luck dealing with the mangled zombie inmates! I'd help you up but it's quite a leap to the roof from here; no working pain senses help a lot with that and all.
...what are you even going to do with my rotted decaying body anyway?
Play card games, of course. No gambling though, the entire plane might as well be the house here.
|
|
|
|
Post by Daij_Djan on Sept 11, 2021 15:22:16 GMT
Yeah, sorry for the delays this episode – I probably shouldn't have continued taking sips of that interesting poison drink Kels fed to me.. I might toally keep it nethertheless – except next time I'll definitely try it with some additional ice For smoe reason I do suddenly have the urge to keep a towel at hand, though..
Goodbye everyone and till next time – it was fun  |
|
|
|
Post by sdfkjgh on Sept 11, 2021 17:14:55 GMT
Daij_Djan: Aw man, I thought you were better than that! Minus a few hundred Cool Points for using that godawful movie adaptation instead of this one.
|
|
|
|
Post by Daij_Djan on Sept 11, 2021 17:22:16 GMT
Daij_Djan: Aw man, I thought you were better than that! Minus a few hundred Cool Points for using that godawful movie adaptation instead of this one. Im afraid, I'll loose a few more Cool Points by admitting I've actually never watched the short series. I might regain a few since I have instead listened to the original radio show, though? |
|
|
|
Post by sdfkjgh on Sept 11, 2021 17:30:56 GMT
Daij_Djan : Granted, but you're still in the hole by a couple hundred.
foureyesisafish, would you like to say a few words of goodbye, or are you still observing that moment of silence for dangerousdice? |
|
foureyesisafish
7/7 Elemental
Posts: 388
Favorite Set: Ikoria: Lair of the Behemoths
Color Alignment: Blue, Red, Green
|
Post by foureyesisafish on Sept 11, 2021 19:57:09 GMT
Daij_Djan : Granted, but you're still in the hole by a couple hundred.
foureyesisafish, would you like to say a few words of goodbye, or are you still observing that moment of silence for dangerousdice? … |
|
|
|
Post by sdfkjgh on Sept 12, 2021 2:33:52 GMT
Well, I suppose that's as good an answer as any.
Join us next time, where we'll prolly still be stuck in Kels' dungeons. |
|
"When in doubt, do a common." 
