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Post by hydraheadhunter on Aug 1, 2021 14:52:20 GMT
| Maelstrom Catamaran A generic, a white, a blue, and a black Artifact - Vehicle
Cascade Crew 4 Whenever you crew a vehicle, cascade as if you cast a spell with a mana value equal to the crew value
4/5
Art: A small boat being tossed on an open stormy sea, bu Jakub M. |
You can crew a vehicle that's already a creature. It won't take a lot of effort to cast everything in your deck below a vehicle's crew value. That's a good catch, but it would still take quite a bit of effort (in deckbuilding) because you need to keep the power needed to crew the vehicle's available, while still cascading into good cards; but, I do see you're point, and yeah it's not exactly the gameplay I want, so I will ammend "non-creature" to vehicle to solve the problem.
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the5lacker
3/3 Beast
Posts: 198
Favorite Card: The Reality Chip
Favorite Set: Kaladesh
Color Alignment: White, Blue
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Post by the5lacker on Aug 1, 2021 23:36:20 GMT
I'd also like to point out that "Cascade" is not a keyword action, like "venture into the dungeon" or "learn." It's not a Verb, so it's not a thing you can do with other effects. If you're looking to do some sort of repeated Cascade effect with a vehicle, I'd recommend some sort of "return to hand" ability. Maybe "Whenever CARDNAME deals combat damage, return it and up to one other target nonland permanent to their owners' hands."
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Post by hydraheadhunter on Aug 2, 2021 16:13:56 GMT
I'd also like to point out that "Cascade" is not a keyword action, like "venture into the dungeon" or "learn." It's not a Verb, so it's not a thing you can do with other effects. If you're looking to do some sort of repeated Cascade effect with a vehicle, I'd recommend some sort of "return to hand" ability. Maybe "Whenever CARDNAME deals combat damage, return it and up to one other target nonland permanent to their owners' hands." Cascade is a keyword ability on or given to cards which cause you to cascade when you cast said cards. It's established, per Averna, the Chaos Bloom, that the act of resolving the Cascade trigger is 'to cascade,' and while currently there is no alternative method of cascading outside of casting card with cascade and cards given cascade, there's no reason an alternative means causing a player to cascade couldn't be established. So while it's an extension of the design space, I wouldn't call it too great a reach to require reworking.
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the5lacker
3/3 Beast
Posts: 198
Favorite Card: The Reality Chip
Favorite Set: Kaladesh
Color Alignment: White, Blue
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Post by the5lacker on Aug 2, 2021 16:31:56 GMT
I'd also like to point out that "Cascade" is not a keyword action, like "venture into the dungeon" or "learn." It's not a Verb, so it's not a thing you can do with other effects. If you're looking to do some sort of repeated Cascade effect with a vehicle, I'd recommend some sort of "return to hand" ability. Maybe "Whenever CARDNAME deals combat damage, return it and up to one other target nonland permanent to their owners' hands." Cascade is a keyword ability on or given to cards which cause you to cascade when you cast said cards. It's established, per Averna, the Chaos Bloom, that the act of resolving the Cascade trigger is 'to cascade,' and while currently there is no alternative method of cascading outside of casting card with cascade and cards given cascade, there's no reason an alternative means causing a player to cascade couldn't be established. So while it's an extension of the design space, I wouldn't call it too great a reach to require reworking. Yeah you could apply that same logic with almost every keyword, and it'd be just as bad then. Cascade is not a keyword action no matter how much you wish it could be. It's a keyword triggered ability. The game can care about triggered abilities without implying there are, by extension, keyword actions. You could not, for example, have a card with "whenever you draw a card, Annihilate 2" or something, even though you could have a card with "when you Annihilate, do X."
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Post by hydraheadhunter on Aug 2, 2021 18:31:52 GMT
Yeah you could apply that same logic with almost every keyword, and it'd be just as bad then. Cascade is not a keyword action no matter how much you wish it could be. It's a keyword triggered ability. The game can care about triggered abilities without implying there are, by extension, keyword actions. You could not, for example, have a card with "whenever you draw a card, Annihilate 2" or something, even though you could have a card with "when you Annihilate, do X." I agree that "whenver you draw a card, Annihilate 2" would be nonsensical, but it's not really a good analogy. The problem with the Annihilator example is in the reminder text: Whenever this creature attacks, defending player sacrifices N permanents. When you draw a card, there isn't a defending player, and so the verbage doesn't work because it doesn't have all the information necessary to function. Let's look at the cascade reminder text: When you cast this spell, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a nonland card whose mana value is less than this spell's mana value. You may cast that card without paying its mana cost if the resulting spell's mana value is less than this spell's mana value. Then put all cards exiled this way that weren't cast on the bottom of your library in a random order. The information cascade needs to function is a number, specifically a mana value which my card's design provides when the trigger happens, and so the analogy doesn't hold water. If you wanted to make your example work, you'd probably do something along the lines of "Whenever an opponent draws a card, annihilate 2 as if they were the defending player." This would be a sensical rules text. It'd be a pretty silly rules text, because the point of keywords is to take a complex or common game mechanic and make it easier to understand, and the alternative "Whenever an opponent draws a card, they sacrifice two permanents," is just infinitely cleaner. Let's then apply that same standard to my Maelstrom Cataraman: assume that the gameplay I want the card to produce is immutible: That platonic of the wording on the card, I want the card to function exactly as it currently does.I can either write it as it was: Whenever you crew a non-creature vehicle, cascade as if you cast a spell with a mana value equal to the crew value. or I can remove the cascade keyword: Whenever you crew a non-creature vehicle, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a nonland card whose mana value is less that vehicle's crew value. You may cast that card without paying its mana cost if the resulting spell’s mana value is less than that vehicle's crew value. Then put all cards exiled this way that weren’t cast on the bottom of your library in a random order. These are the only two options to get a stand alone card that functions exactly as my submission does. Do a little harmless anthimeria and action an ability, or put that ability absolutely massive reminder text directly into the text box. I mocked up what the second option would look like, and I want you to honestly tell me which you'd prefer to play with or against ( To Be Clear, I'm not changing my submission to this mock up. I'm just posting it as part of the point). | Maelstrom Catamaran 2 A generic, a white, a blue, and a black Artifact - Vehicle
Cascade Crew 4 Whenever you crew a non-creature vehicle, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a nonland card whose mana value is less that vehicles crew value. You may cast that card without paying its mana cost if the resulting spell’s mana value is less than this that vehicles crew value. Then put all cards exiled this way that weren’t cast on the bottom of your library in a random order.
4/5 |
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Post by Daij_Djan on Aug 2, 2021 20:26:53 GMT
So while it's an extension of the design space, I wouldn't call it too great a reach to require reworking. Honestly, it would be a big deal. The rules don't handle changing something into an keyword action easily if at all, the5lacker is not wrong here. I 100% agree it's nethertheless really easy to understand what you're going for still. It really is one of those cases where everyone gets the effect you want - even if the rules don't really support it. Let's see how it'll do in the poll - and by the way..
This thread is now closed, the poll can be found here. And here's the next challenge!
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