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Post by burntsquirrelman on Apr 17, 2018 13:30:19 GMT
For a set I want to work on that involves the use of Suspend and Time Counters in general, I had quickly thought up a card that interacts with those. <iframe width="8.5" height="11.460000000000036" style="position: absolute; width: 8.5px; height: 11.460000000000036px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 5px; top: 37px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_56202569" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="8.5" height="11.460000000000036" style="position: absolute; width: 8.5px; height: 11.46px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 370px; top: 37px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_28693386" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="8.5" height="11.460000000000036" style="position: absolute; width: 8.5px; height: 11.46px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 5px; top: 547px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_43699392" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="8.5" height="11.460000000000036" style="position: absolute; width: 8.5px; height: 11.46px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 370px; top: 547px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_5335484" scrolling="no"></iframe> Immediately, I realize that on its own in a vacuum, what this card does is draws you an extra card for six turns and then loses you the game. From what I understand, that makes it kinda bad, but it also seems like it is overly powerful when taken outside of that vacuum. You are now removing 3 time counters from suspended cards each turn. You now have the chance to get Greater Gargadon out earlier than is reasonable and sacrifice Final Hours to him so you don't have to worry about losing the game!There's probably a lot I need to change that I haven't even noticed yet, as well. EDIT!And almost as immediately as I noticed its flaws, I figured out a way to make it fit more into the mechanics it interacted with and actually toned it down a lot. Now, it only removes 1 extra counter from everything all while doing it suspended, the mechanic that it interacts with.
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Post by CanterburyEgg on Apr 17, 2018 17:54:47 GMT
What's "Shelon Eternal"?
This is an intriguing card. Anything with the plain text "you lose the game" on it catches my eye. I'm a little confused why the suspend version still removes time counters from permanents you control, since as far as I'm aware that's strictly downside. I guess in a set where Vanishing is used on enchantments as delayed spells it could find footing, but at that point you're just remaking suspend.
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Post by burntsquirrelman on Apr 17, 2018 19:04:12 GMT
Sorry, I never elaborated upon that. I want to work on a set that revolves around a dying plane that keeps cycling through its final hours eternally. The set is going to make use of suspend, and I hope to make use of time counters in new and unique ways. Currently, Final Hours does exactly what you say it does, though... EDITSimply posting the card designs here is helping me realize what is a good idea and what is a bad idea. Without any sort of positive interaction with current cards, and no new ideas to show why this might be good in the set, especially considering that the mechanics that do end up in the set may never interact with this card positively are clear signs that it's a poor design. For the moment. Now with this knowledge I can move onto newer and bigger mistakes! {Render 3} This one moves past the original idea of "What if the suspended card interacted with suspended cards? And also lost you the game?" and into the realm of "What if the suspended card had a very powerful effect, but will eventually lose you the game?"
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Post by CanterburyEgg on Apr 17, 2018 21:34:42 GMT
This ends up kind of warping into a blue effect (gaining control of multiple permanents). I think it's a HUGE flavor miss, unless I'm just misinterpreting things. What exactly is the flavor of the new version?
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Post by burntsquirrelman on Apr 17, 2018 21:47:57 GMT
If I didn't convey the flavor, then it is a failure. I will do my best to explain the idea behind it.
The Plane of Shelon is dying and repeating its final moments over and over in a desperate attempt to continue on. This is causing a sort of Groundhogs Day scenario where in the last moment of its death throes, as every part of itself and the inhabitants of the world are about to be lost to the void, it pulls back to a previous moment of existence only to wait for its inevitable end again, from which it will pull back again and again. The cards that are exiled and returned were to represent this loss to the void at the end and being brought back from the brink. The Lose the Game is when the World can't hold on any longer.
I am open to how I can better portray this flavor, while also making it a functional card, and still fit the color pie.
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Post by elf491 on Nov 9, 2018 3:46:39 GMT
Honestly, I don't think that this card is too far out of color. It just could use a few tweaks. I would recommend changing the effect to 'each opponent sacrifices a creature/permanent.' as sacrifice is a very in-color ability for black. Then the second part could be 'put target creature card in a graveyard into play under your control.' again, very in-color.
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Post by kefke on Nov 28, 2018 7:14:38 GMT
One thing is, I think you were onto something with your original version. While the current is very powerful, it probably wouldn't be very fun to play against, as it just sits there and beats on you for several turns until its controller either eventually wins or loses. Meanwhile, there's not a whole lot that can be done to it, other than removing time counters to speed up the clock, which means focusing on an opponent's card rather than playing your own. An enchantment that kills you when it dies isn't out of character for Black, and it makes something that a player can respond to. Maybe give the enchantment Shroud so it's a little harder to deal with - both for opponents and the controller.
Something along these lines;
Shroud Vanishing N
As [CARDNAME] enters the battlefield, you lose life equal to your life total. You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life. (Yes, that is the Lich effect.)
...then add some other powerful effect that makes up for putting your life on a time limit. It gives you some power, captures the "world is ending" flavor, and has something on the board where, however difficult, your opponent(s) can try to do something about it.
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Post by ameisenmeister on Dec 13, 2018 16:29:00 GMT
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Post by burntsquirrelman on Dec 14, 2018 15:44:21 GMT
It's been a while since I've been to the forums, and I completely forgot about this card and thread. kefkeThat sounds a lot more reasonable, and something I will definitely take into consideration. I will probably change a lot about this card, that is if it even remains anywhere close to staying in the set. ameisenmeisterI think you missed that the 7 is not part of the cost, but how long it stays suspended. It only costs . Either way, it's probably going to see some major changes.
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Post by ameisenmeister on Dec 14, 2018 22:50:22 GMT
Oh well, I actually missed that because of the missing hyphen between the numbers. My bad.
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