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Post by aegisblade on Jul 3, 2020 23:41:54 GMT
My friends and I have been creating a core-type set by randomly drawing picks to design. For this round, I drew a green creature at mythic rarity. We're only using evergreen mechanics, i.e. no custom keywords; and as of now, no serious world-building, etc. This is what I've been toying with Epic Bee Swarm1   Creature -- Insect  Flying At the beginning of your upkeep, create a token that's a copy of ~. 3/1 or Epic Bee Swarm2 Creature -- Insect Flying, deathtouch At the beginning of your upkeep, create a token that's a copy of ~. 2/1 It could possibly get out of control if left unchecked, but could ironically be taken out by a Hornet Sting. There are so far 4 direct damage spells and 5 removal spells that could take the creature out that already exist in the set. Feels kind of bland and not entirely Mythic to me. What do you folks think is missing? |
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Ketsuban
0/0 Germ
Posts: 11
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Red
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Post by Ketsuban on Jul 4, 2020 3:17:40 GMT
Flying in green is a pie break unless it "serve[s] a large purpose of the design", e.g. you're doing a dragon in one of those sets where every colour gets a dragon.
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Post by aegisblade on Jul 4, 2020 16:01:38 GMT
There are precedents for flying in green, and that isn't exactly what I'm worried about.
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Jul 6, 2020 3:44:23 GMT
aegisblade I think part of what makes the card not really feel Mythic is that it doesn't promote any interesting gameplay by itself - you throw it down, it generates a bunch of efficient tokens, and...that's about it. There's no reason for me to go out of my way to build a deck with a unique strategy based on the card's gimmick (compare something like Uro, which is run in pretty much every ramp deck under the sun in Standard because of its raw efficiency). How about having some kind of interesting condition under which tokens are generated? Even something as simple as "Whenever a nontoken Insect dies, create a green 3/1 Bee token with flying." or something like that as opposed to the current ability would be more interesting IMHO because now you have to work for your special payoff effect.
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Post by Daij_Djan on Jul 6, 2020 21:02:06 GMT
Well, flying in green is unusual, but it does in fact have a history when used for Bees (with deathtouch though, so I'd highly suggest using it) so that's fine indeed.
That aside, nowadays mythics mostly fall into one of two categories: They are either huge flashy cards (with high CMC) or are aggressively costed tournament staples. Your card kind of falls in the middle: It's cheap yet obviously not pushed enough to become a format stample - but it's not really flashy either. The big question now would be: Which direction would you prefer to push your design more?
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Ketsuban
0/0 Germ
Posts: 11
Color Alignment: White, Blue, Red
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Post by Ketsuban on Jul 7, 2020 1:18:56 GMT
Well, flying in green is unusual, but it does in fact have a history when used for Bees (with deathtouch though, so I'd highly suggest using it) so that's fine indeed. This is why colour pie breaks are dangerous - they get used as justification for more of them in the future. Your "history when used for bees" is Hornet Queen, which is a wellknown violation of the colour pie, and some old cards like Caustic Wasps, Killer Bees and Locust Swarm. (There's another wellknown green hornet-themed pie break, but that doesn't involve flying.)
Green is tertiary in flying - it's okay for green to get flying when there's a set which skews towards flying as a mechanic, such as dragon-themed sets when every colour gets a dragon. A random efficient green flier in a core set (even a custom one) is exactly what Hornet Queen was, and exactly what you don't want. If you must make a green flier, make it big and showy but not very efficient.
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Post by aegisblade on Jul 21, 2020 23:53:40 GMT
This is take two: Inevitable Swarm Creature - Insect Flying, deathtouch When ~ enters the battlefield and at the beginning of your upkeep, create a token that's a copy of ~. When ~ dies, if you control a token that's a copy of it, return it to its owner's hand instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard. 3/2 Is this going in the right direction? |
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Post by aegisblade on Aug 10, 2020 10:33:57 GMT
After some playtesting, the group decided on this. Inevitable Swarm Creature - Insect Flying Whenever a creature dealt damage by ~ this turn dies, create a token that’s a copy of ~. When ~ dies, if you control a token that’s a copy of it, return it to its owner’s hand instead of putting it into its owner’s graveyard. 3/3 We like the color pie bend, and we're adding more cards that bend. |
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Post by gateways7 on Aug 10, 2020 21:36:01 GMT
This is honestly a little worrying in terms of card design, by nature a bend is something that shouldn't be happening too often or you risk negating color's weaknesses in certain areas, and if you make a lot of cards that bend pie you're propogating those issues even further by making the color pie less relevant. Magic is founded on the color pie and a system of strengths and weaknesses each color provides, and bending each color is going to make everything feel very samey, something antithetical to Magic as a whole.
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Post by aegisblade on Aug 10, 2020 22:31:45 GMT
Well, we're not really running this to the boys upstairs. This is for fun, not to be sold in 15-card booster packs, 8-card gamble packs with a 1% chance for 18 extra foil mythics, 10-pack bundles, etc. etc. etc. I know it's silly to argue with a grognard about the sanctity of the color pie, but here's some other pie-bending we have going on -- !Unnamed Goblin  Creature - Goblin Shaman  Pay 1 life,  : Untap target Swamp. 1/1 Meditative Focus   Sorcery (?) Choose a card name. Exile the top six cards of your library, then reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a card with the chosen name. Put that card into your hand and exile all other cards revealed this way. To Ashes (Red's color hoser +1)  Instant  Choose one -- • Counter target blue or white noncreature spell. • Exile all cards from target player's graveyard. We've still got the general idea of white going wide with small creatures, black dabbling in a bit of everything for a price, green churning out lands and dropping chungi, etc. Minor breaks make for some neat design space, that's all. |
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Post by ZephyrPhantom on Aug 11, 2020 3:39:48 GMT
Nothing wrong with enjoying the game the way you want to, and it's good that you found a version of Inevitable Swarm your group is cool with. Just be aware that this means it may be a somewhat different design focus/metagame than what others expect. Is the intended combo for Unnamed Goblin Cabal Coffer + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth? Seems pretty powerful for a 1-drop if that's the case. |
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Post by aegisblade on Aug 11, 2020 22:05:17 GMT
Have you seen this card? gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197959The unnamed gobbo is just a worse version of our intrepid elf up there. We seem to be taking a lot of inspiration from A/B/U. and Black did have Sacrifice and Dark Ritual, we're trying to tone it down a bit. As a side note, here's something another person in our group did, which did actually make me lose my mind: !Stupid Green Brainstorm Sorcery Cast this spell only if you control three or more lands. (Or, a creature with power 4 or greater as an instant?) Draw three cards, then put two cards from your hand on top of your library in any order. |
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