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Post by mythwind on Sept 14, 2018 22:39:55 GMT
I play with a group of friends casual magic. We play variants of Commander where sometimes we allow 4x cards and powerful spells like Balance, Moxes, Time Walks, etc... I have enjoyed playing slivers for a very long time, but got frustrated as to how far apart they appear, thus decided to design my own.... Here are the results.... Its in 5 files. Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
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Post by mythwind on Sept 14, 2018 22:44:24 GMT
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Post by mythwind on Sept 14, 2018 23:36:06 GMT
In the attachments you will find:
The "SSS" is for Super Symmetric Slivers...
Mono colored 4x White, 4x Blue, 4x Black, 4x Red, 4x Green, 3x Devoid (:C:),
Generic 6x Artivacts
10x Two colored
10x Tri colored
5x Four colores (sweepers … The Egg Tokens belong to these...)
5x Five Colored
Enjoy
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Post by fluffydeathbringer on Sept 14, 2018 23:49:36 GMT
making the card images be in five different files is the most awkward method of conveying them to your potential audience that I can think of off the top of my head. from now on, I heavily suggest you either post text versions of the cards into your posts, post the card images into your posts directly, or upload the set file with all of them in it. asking your audience to download five separate things just to see your cards will turn them off from viewing them and giving you feedback. especially when you can't even zoom in on the powerpoint ones to alleviate the smalltextiness of the cards without awkwardly fiddling with each individual image
as for the cards themselves
- Pearl Sliver's out of color, white doesn't get mana dorks. ditto Sapphire Sliver and all other nongreen iterations of this card (black's recent dorks are always conditional somehow). sacrificial sliver maybe given black got Treasures in Ixalan, but I'm still side-eyeing it. Sol Sliver is a'ight though
- why is Lawful/Discovery/Obliterating/Utvara/Earlbrood/Aeons Torn/Phyrexian Sliver legendary when nothing suggests it's a distinct entity - Spontaneous Sliver is a tad excessive - Manareflector Sliver untapping lands whenever a Sliver enters is excessive at two mana - is Defensive Sliver's last ability meant to be unique to it or given to all Slivers - Phyrexian Sliver giving indestructible and infect is definitely excessive - the hybrid+two-color mana costs of the guild slivers are pointless since you need to be paying mana of the two different colors already - Boros Sliver is another one of those excessive ones - why are there two Sliver Queen planeswalkers - Sliver Queen Evolved's mana cost is just hideous. you do not need to go this deep into the unique mana symbol weight, WUBRG is almost identically unattainable to CWUBRG
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Post by mythwind on Sept 15, 2018 0:53:24 GMT
Apologies for making you look into files... I could not get them into posts easily, I think I am limited to 3 attachments (any help on that front is welcomed)
On the comments:
* There is a cycle of artifact slivers with phyrexian mana basically like Moxes. Each color has a pay 2 life or 1 mana of the color to get the Sliver Mox equivalent, so that is why they are a bit off color.
* Lawful/Discovery/Obliterating/Utvara/Earlbrood/Aeons Torn were legendary just for fun (liked the format) making the cards of the highest color concentration special, strong and high costed. Agree its not as important for the cards themselves. Anyhow these ALL are meant to play one-off in a deck.
* Spontaneous was put there upping the power level of Heart Sliver...
* Manareflector Sliver at two mana untapping a land whenever a Sliver enters... what would be the right CMC?
* Defensive Sliver's last ability was meant for all... Though I think it does create infinite with Crucible Sliver... so not 100% sure its too much.
* Phyrexian sliver is a finisher... the idea is to have power equivalent to a Blightsteel Colossus for the swarm. Initially I had the Infect and indestructible separate, but I decided to fuse
* The two mana hybrid was more to justify a card frame that was not gold but hybrid... a little like the legendary thing (or why there are Enchantment Creatures)
* What would be the right CMC for a Boros Sliver? or what would you leave ar 5CMC that resonates the guild?
* I have 2 Queens as Planeswalkers to have a Sparker and a mature one... the CMC of including C on the WUBRG is to make it harder to cast... just like trying to cast the Devoid Cycle is hard on the Manabase.
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Post by fluffydeathbringer on Sept 15, 2018 1:12:51 GMT
Apologies for making you look into files... I could not get them into posts easily, I think I am limited to 3 attachments (any help on that front is welcomed) You can just attach the single mse-set file that you have all these cards in as one attachment. |
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Post by mythwind on Sept 15, 2018 1:29:55 GMT
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Post by fluffydeathbringer on Sept 15, 2018 2:52:26 GMT
sorry, forgot to mention that this site does a weird thing with mse-set files where it converts them into mseset files which are unopenable with mse. so either the people downloading have to manually convert the file into mse-set or I recommend you host the set file on an external link hosting site, like mediafire or dropbox
going to bed but there's a glaring issue with one of your cycles: namely the four-color one that makes eggs. when you make a token you have to put all of that token's rules text into the ability that creates it, which results in monstrosities like this:
this image was chopped by cajun's mainframe template and even then it's this smalltext-y. without the flavour text.
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Post by Jéské Couriano on Sept 15, 2018 6:34:38 GMT
Aeons Torn ) All keywords follow standard English grammar rules, and thus are not capitalised unless they start a sentence/list. I would actually reword this and add a Colossus Clause, as MaRo has more or less stated Devoid's effect won't be keyworded going forward ( magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/storm-scale-zendikar-and-battle-zendikar-2016-11-21 ), and that second ability needs to be mandatory because of this being more or less a guaranteed unrecoverable boardstate if it's cheated in early. Displacer ) The Exile zone is a shared zone, thus there is no "your exile". You do not need to put a line break followed by the abilities gained. Manawake ) The second ability doesn't do what you think it does. I note that there is nothing written on the card actually stopping the mana from being drained at end of phase; a replacement effect can't stop this. See above for wording.
Hivemaster ) As Fluffy noted, you are more-or-less obligated to provide reminder text for any expert-level keywords, of which Champion is one. I would actually just axe that ability altogether as Champion on a 1/1 token is a waste of resources, especially if you control a Displacer.
Communing ) Up the cost to at least   and give it fatter pants. [Read: More toughness. --Bori]
Lawful ) This combos way too well with repeatable bounce/flicker, especially if you bounce/flicker cheap Slivers (and especially Gemhide Sliver). Also, there are very few instances where a sacrifice is forced on you by an opponent rather than one of your own permanents. Reword: Peace ) Reword: Multiple "Do not attack unless you pay" effects stack.
Pearl ) Drop the coloured mana from the cost. Mana dorks in white are not okay even with the artifact justification; it needs to be a colourless artifact for that.
Discovery ) Reword:
As written, Discovery would make you draw multiple cards every time you attacked, blocked, or added a new Sliver to the hive - which is broken both for (incomparable amount of choices) and against (inevitable deckout) you.
Misthollow ) Reword:
Kozilek, Emrakul, Kozakul.
Sapphire ) See Pearl above.
Shielding ) Broken. This ability is basically a Force Spike on Storm-laced methamphetamine that triggers on anything that even looks at your Slivers funny. And I'm not exaggerating - as written, every single Sliver will have that ability trigger the instant that condition is met as long as you don't alpha-strike, meaning that the opponent has no choice but to let the spell be countered - he can't Stifle what could possibly be five, ten, maybe even fifteen different triggers, he'd be putting his boardstate into an unrecoverable one if he dared pay every single cost (and he would have to if he wanted the spell to actually take effect), and if he isn't red, black, or white (all of which have creature boardwipes) the game verges on unwinnable. This ability would be busted at any cost, which is why Diffusion Sliver does NOT grant the ability to all Slivers.
Jet ) See Pearl above and Basal Sliver for black mana dorks done right.
Obliterating ) Reword and add a Colossus Clause. Reanimating ) This ability doesn't work the way you think it does. It needs to have the ability as it's entering the battlefield. Increase the mana cost to   and the P/T proportionately. Sacrificial ) Reword:
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Post by Jéské Couriano on Sept 15, 2018 8:22:02 GMT
Ruby ) See Pearl above. Red doesn't get repeatable mana (In fact, Dark Ritual would be red nowadays if it weren't a 10 on the Storm Scale.)
Spirit ) Reword:
As of Dominaria "[...]to your mana pool" is obsolete.
Spontaneous ) A simple reword: Utvara ) This should be . While red does create tokens, it's generally not repeatable, and creating tokens off of damage is more (the colour most interested in knock-down, drag-out fistfights).
Courser ) Reword:
Earlbrood ) Reword:
As Utvara doesn't have Sliverlink it makes sense Earlbrood shouldn't either. (Sliverlink is also a goofy name.)
Emerald ) Reword: Manastone ) Reword: Abzan ) Okay, now let's turn up the shit source and crank the diarrhoea dial. From here on I will provide rewordings and explain, in detail, what is wrong with the card. The first issue with this card is it's lifegain for lifegain's sake. One Transcendence later, you lose. In fact, it need not be Transcendence - any alternate wincon renders lifegain irrelevant. The second issue is Phasing is an expert-level keyword, so you are, again, obligated to provide reminder text, which adds more text to the card. Text box space is at a premium, and so cards must be as concise as possible. The third issue is that this card combos far too well with Lawful Sliver to the point of almost breaking it - all for the cost of five mana, a dead draw, and a token with Runed Stalactite.
Aggression ) You failed to specify the tokens' P/T; I fixed that for you. This is too cheap for an unconditional boardwipe of this nature, even with the mana requirements; the closest equivalents I could find for that cost or less are Boompile (which requires a coin toss), Coercive Portal (which requires a majority vote), Perilous Vault (which requires five mana to activate), and Plague Boiler (which requires time to set up), and Hour of Revelation (which requires 10 nonlands to get the cost reduction). Even then, the next size up is also loaded with conditionals: Child of Alara (requires dying) and Urza's Ruinous Blast (Requires a legendary to even declare it). The earliest available unconditional "86 all nonland permanents" is at 6 mana. The same issues plague the rest of the cycle (Altruism, Artifice, Chaos, Growth) so consider this a critique of the lot of them at once. Fluffy has already addressed the wording/text issues, so I will not reiterate them here except to ask, quite sincerely, if you expect a Magic player to carry magnifying glasses or jeweler's loupes.
Bant ) That activated ability is weaksauce. Again, lifegain in and of itself isn't useful, and there are far cheaper ways, especially in Bant's colours ( Fog, Holy Day) to prevent all combat damage. This card also exacerbates the issue with Shielding Sliver.
Battalion ) This is basically supertrample with added creature removal. There's no point chumpblocking with Slivers; an alpha strike will pretty much be a block- and-die situation, with your opponent losing his whole board. (Doubly so if you use Lure.) The only thing keeping it from being overly broken is it requires Slivers, but even with just 3 or 4 Slivers that's something your opponent will be practically unable to contest, especially if he can't use spells to stop it (i.e. Shielding (again), Diffusion, or Ward).
Esper ) The last ability is redundant (and far too expensive for the asking price) if you're using counterspells to any realistic extent and/or abusing Isochron Scepter or similar. A 'chron'd Stifle or Voidmage Husher deals with abilities, and another 'chron with Counterspell or Hisoka deals with spells.
Grixis )
Instant-speed discards are disturbingly powerful, even considering the rest of the effect. And again, all it costs you is 5 mana, a dead draw, and a token with the 'tite.
Jeskai ) This is the only case where the  ability is actually useful - the only cards I'm aware of that copy abilities is Tawnos, Urza's Apprentice (from whom the RT in the text above comes) and Panharmonicon (albeit in a roundabout manner) and even then they're conditional. As for copying spells, 'chron a Twincast or Reverberate. Again, five mana, a dead draw, and a token with 'tite.
Jund ) If an effect deals damage, it always clarifies what the source is for the purpose of protection and CoPs. This isn't worth it; Sudden Spoiling, Polymorphist's Jest (albeit out of Jund colours) and Contagion Engine (albeit one mana more expensive but can abuse proliferate by itself) does the primary work of this ability, and the damage isn't really worth it if you cast one of the former and have a ready boardwipe on hand to capitalise or are abusing proliferate (in which case, you're spamming -1/-1 and/or poison counters).
Naya ) This card takes the tribal mechanic way too far to the point a tribal hate deck liberally abusing Engineered Plague and various other tribal-hate is a requirement as opposed to a strong suggestion. While slivers are by their very nature tribal, they're not exactly made to blitzkrieg. |
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Post by Jéské Couriano on Sept 15, 2018 9:03:16 GMT
Sultai ) The recursive graveyard return is a slight issue for me, and the five-draw-tite ability is only worth it if you're overloaded on Slivers - and even then it'd be more economical to just alpha-strike.
Temur ) I'm not even going to give you a corrected wording. Lose the Cascade.
Phyrexian ) This needs to (1) not use phymana and (2) have a Colossus Clause.
Azorius ) Taking away the obvious flavour disconnect (The Senate would almost perennially be at loggerheads with a Sliver hive), swap Shroud for Hexproof.
Dimir ) Reword:
"Unblockable" isn't a keyword and never will be because there's ways to block unblockable creatures (generally with spells).
Rakdos ) Reword: Gruul ) See my wording for Manastone and all Slivers which grant keyword abilities.
Selesnya ) Reword:
Orzhov ) I would imagine an Orzhov sliver to have something to do with lifegain and lifeloss, as that's their usual strategy.
Dragon von Munchausen er, The Ted Baxter of Guild Leaders erm, Ravnica's Cirno argh, Izzet Sliver ) Reword:
Golgari ) Why the hell does a Golgari-oriented Sliver have flash? The mana generated should be Golgari colours.
Boros ) 86 the Akroma soup and come up with something else. If it helps, the Boros are Ravnica's law enforcement, and they tend to have abilities that emphasize aggression. [Insert tasteless cop jokes here. -Bori]
Simic ) Reword:
Reaper ) Reword as the Simic above.
Archiving ) Reword:
Note that if you ever control as many Slivers as you have cards in your library, using this ability will cause a deckout.
Chromatic ) See Manastone.
Crucible ) Lifegain for the sake of lifegain is useless, for the third time. Defensive ) 86 the Akroma soup. ESPECIALLY banding. [Anyone who suggests Banding is a good idea nowadays is invited to re-create Benalish Hero with no flavour text and with Banding's reminder text. -Bori]
Manareflector ) I'm concerned about this in conjunction with Hibernation Sliver. Same with Sol.
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Post by mythwind on Sept 15, 2018 14:06:19 GMT
Aeons Torn Sliver 4CCCC
Legendary Creature — Sliver :mythic:
Slivers creatures you control have
“Devoid, Protection from colored spells or abilities, Annihilator 1 (Whenever this creature attacks, defending player sacrifices a permanent.).”
At the beginning of your upkeep, if Aeons Torn Sliver is in your graveyard, you may pay 1. If you do, shuffle your graveyard into your library.
The Sliver Queen thought Emrakul to be a long lost sister... and shaped the swarm calling to her.
4/4
Displacer Sliver 1C
Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Devoid.
3,T: Exile target creature, then return it to the battlefield tapped under its owner’s control.”
At the beginning of your upkeep, if Displacer Sliver is in exile, you may pay 1. If you do, shuffle your exile into your library.
Slivers have creative ways to ruin enemy formations and adapt to adversity.
1/1
Manawake Sliver 5CC
Enchantment Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Lands and Slivers creatures you control have
“Devoid. Whenever this permanent produces mana, you it produces twice as much of that mana instead.”
If you would lose unspent mana, that mana becomes colorless instead.
The land drank power from the swarm’s unstoppable growth as though both had thirsted forever.
2/2
Sliver Hivemaster 7
Legendary Creature — Sliver :special:
Eminence — Whenever a Sliver enters the battlefield, if Sliver Hivemaster is in the command zone or on the battlefield, you may pay 3. If you do, search your exile, library or graveyard for a Sliver card, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. Shuffle your library.
3: Create a 1/1 colorless Sliver creature token with Champion a Sliver.
CWUBRG: Until your next turn, you may pay 0 rather than pay the mana cost for Sliver creature spells you cast.
4/4
Communing Sliver W
Creature — Sliver :common:
Convoke (Each creature you tap while playing this spell reduces its cost by 1 or by one mana of that creature’s color.)
Each Sliver card you can cast has Convoke.
The cooperating swarm calls others as one harmonious chord.
1/1
Lawful Sliver 2WWWW
Legendary Creature — Sliver :mythic:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Spells and abilities your opponents control can’t cause you to sacrifice this permanent. Whenever this permanent leaves the battlefield, each opponent sacrifices a permanent.”
The swarm has incomprehensible rules, but it is clear revenge is a part of the sliver law.
4/4
Peace Sliver 1WW
Enchantment Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Sliver creatures you control have
“As long as this permanent is untapped, creatures can’t attack you or planeswalkers you control unless their controller pays 1 for each of these creatures.”
To protect their hive and live in peace, slivers drain power form advancing enemies.
2/2
Pearl Sliver H/W
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
(H/W can be paid with either W or 2 life.)
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Add C or W to your mana pool.”
The Sliver Queen fashioned living jewels to rival the power of the Moxen.
1/1
Discovery Sliver 2UUUU
Legendary Creature — Sliver :mythic:
Slivers you control have
“Whenever a this permanent enters the battlefield, blocks or attacks, you may draw a card.”
The hive’s fertility is enhanced stopping threats and feeding voraciously.
4/4
Misthollow Sliver 2UU
Enchantment Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Flash. You may cast Misthollow Sliver from exile.
Each Sliver card you can cast has Flash.
Each Sliver card in your exile has “You may cast this card from exile.”
For slivers, existing is only a whim.
2/2
Sapphire Sliver H/U
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
(H/U can be paid with either U or 2 life.)
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Add C or U to your mana pool.”
The Sliver Queen fashioned living jewels to rival the power of the Moxen.
1/1
Shielding Sliver 1U
Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“As long as this permanent is untapped, whenever you, a planeswalker you control, or a Sliver creature you control become the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, you may counter that spell or ability unless its controller pays 1.”
The hive shimmered with protection.
1/1
Jet Sliver H/B
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
(H/B can be paid with either B or 2 life.)
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Add C or B to your mana pool.”
The Sliver Queen fashioned living jewels to rival the power of the Moxen.
1/1
Obliterating Sliver 2BBBB
Legendary Creature — Sliver :mythic:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Whenever a source deals damage to this permanent, that source’s controller sacrifices that many permanents.”
Sliver Queen’s blessed perfection.
4/4
Reanimating Sliver B
Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“When this permanent enters the battlefield, you may pay 3X, if you do so, put target creature card with converted mana cost X or lower from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control, it gains Sliver as a creature type.”
The might of the sliver’s traverses all boundaries, even those separating life and death.
1/1
Sacrificial Sliver BB
Enchantment Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Sacrifice this permanent: You draw a card and you lose 1 life
Sacrifice this permanent: Add CC or one mana of any color to your mana pool.”
Some slivers purpose seems meaningless, but their death glorifies the hive.
2/2
Ruby Sliver H/R
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
(H/R can be paid with either R or 2 life.)
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Add C or R to your mana pool.”
The Sliver Queen fashioned living jewels to rival the power of the Moxen.
1/1
Spirit Sliver RR
Enchantment Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Exile Spirit Sliver from your hand: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Each Sliver card in your hand has “Exile this card from your hand: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.”
Sliver creatures you control have Haste.
Smells like burnt slivers lately.
2/2
Spontaneous Sliver 1R
Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“First strike, Haste.”
The sliver come into the world a perfect predator. Ready to hunt and devour its first meal within seconds of hatching.
1/1
Utvara Sliver 2RRRR
Legendary Creature — Sliver :mythic:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Whenever a this permanent attacks or blocks, create a 1/1 colorless Sliver creature token.”
The fear of slivers is quite new but as powerful as the fear of death itself.
4/4
Courser Sliver GG
Enchantment Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Reveal the top card of your library, if it is a land card may put it into the battlefield tapped.”
Land and slivers share a common bond, calling each other across infinity.
2/2
Earlbrood Sliver 3GGGG
Legendary Creature — Sliver :mythic:
Earlbrood Sliver can’t be countered.
Sliver spells you cast can’t be countered.
Sliver creatures you control have
“Reach, Sliverlink (Damage dealt by this creature also causes you to create that many 1/1 colorless Sliver creature tokens.).”
Within weeks, more slivers were nested in the land than had ever existed.
4/4
Emerald Sliver H/G
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
(H/G can be paid with either G or 2 life.)
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Add C or G to your mana pool.”
The Sliver Queen fashioned living jewels to rival the power of the Moxen.
1/1
Manastone Sliver 1G
Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Add C or one mana of any color to your mana pool.”
In their interconnectedness there is a strange embodiment of the natural order.
1/1
Abzan Sliver 1BGW
Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Lifelink. When this permanent enters or leaves the battlefield you gain 1 life. At the beginning of your upkeep gain 1 life.”
5, Discard one card from your hand, Exile this permanent: Until your next turn, your life total can’t change and you have protection from everything. All nontoken permanents you control phase out.”
3/3
Aggression Sliver BRGW
Creature — Sliver :rare:
When you cast Aggression Sliver, you may choose to destroy all nonland permanents. For each permanent destroyed this way, its controller, creates an Aggression Sliver Egg creature token”.
Sliver Creatures you control have
“Protection from Blue.”
The Sliver Queen sends her regards.
2/2
Altruism Sliver RGWU
Creature — Sliver :rare:
When you cast Altruism Sliver, you may choose to exile all nonland permanents. For each permanent returned this way, its controller, creates an Altruism Sliver Egg creature token”.
Sliver Creatures you control have
“Protection from Black.”
The Sliver Queen sends her regards.
2/2
Artifice Sliver WUBR
Creature — Sliver :rare:
When you cast Artifice Sliver, you may choose to return to its owner’s hand all nonland permanents. For each permanent exiled this way, its controller, creates an Artifice Sliver Egg artifact creature token”.
Sliver Creatures you control have
“Protection from Green.”
The Sliver Queen sends her regards.
2/2
Bant Sliver 2GWU
Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Flash. Each Sliver card you can cast has Flash.
Sliver creatures you control have
“This permanent untaps during each other player’s untap step.
5, Discard one card from your hand, Sacrifice this permanent: Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn, gain 3 life for each attacking creature.”
3/3
Battalion Sliver WUBRG
Legendary Enchantment Creature — Sliver :rare:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Protection from colorless. Reach, Trample. Whenever this permanent becomes blocked by a creature, that creature gets -X/-X until end of turn. Whenever this permanent blocks a creature, it gains +X/+X until end of turn. Where X is the number of Sliver creatures you control.”
A power within the clicking, chittering swarm, still young, but growing more as time passes.
5/5
Chaos Sliver UBRG
Creature — Sliver :rare:
When you cast Chaos Sliver, you may shuffle all nonland permanents into their owner’s library. For each permanent shuffled this way, its controller, creates a Chaos Sliver Egg creature token”.
Sliver Creatures you control have
“Protection from White.”
The Sliver Queen sends her regards.
2/2
Esper Sliver WUB
Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Flash. Each Sliver card you can cast has Flash.
Sliver creatures you control have
“1, T: Draw a card, then put a card from your hand on top of your library.
5, Discard one card from your hand, Sacrifice this permanent: Counter target spell, activated ability, or triggered ability. (Mana abilities can’t be targeted.)”
3/3
Grixis Sliver UBR
Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Deathtouch, Flying.
5, Discard one card from your hand, Sacrifice this permanent: Each opponent discards a card, loses 1 life, and then sacrifices a creature with the greatest power among creatures that player controls.”
3/3
Growth Sliver GWUB
Creature — Sliver :rare:
When cast Growth Sliver, you may choose to have each player sacrifice all nonland permanents. For each permanent sacrificed this way, its controller, creates creates a Growth Sliver Egg creature token”.
Sliver Creatures you control have
“Protection from Red.”
The Sliver Queen sends her regards.
2/2
Jeskai Sliver RWU
Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Until end of turn, whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, you may draw a card unless that player pays 1.
1, T: Draw a card, then discard a card.
5, Discard one card from your hand, Exile this permanent: Copy target instant, sorcery, activated ability, or triggered ability. You may choose new targets for the copy.”
3/3
Jund Sliver BRG
Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Whenever this permanent dies, target player loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
1: Regenerate this permanent.
5, Discard one card from your hand, Sacrifice this permanent: Until end of turn, permanents your opponents control lose indestructible, hexproof and shroud. Deal 1 damage to each creature and each planeswalker your opponent’s control.”
3/3
Mardu Sliver 2WBR
Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Whenever you cast Mardu Sliver, you may create a 1/1 colorless Sliver creature token.
Each Sliver card you cast has “Whenever you cast this spell, you may create a 1/1 colorless Sliver creature token.”
5, Discard one card from your hand, Exile this permanent: Goad all creatures you don’t control. (Until your next turn, those creatures attack each combat if able and attack a player other than you if able.)”
3/3
Naya Sliver 4RGW
Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Haste, Trample, Vigilance. Whenever this permanent deals combat damage to a player, reveal that many cards from the top of your library. Put any number of Sliver creature cards from among them onto the battlefield and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.”
5, Discard one card from your hand, Sacrifice this permanent: Create a 1/1 colorless Sliver creature token for each Sliver creature you control.”
3/3
Sliver Queen, Edge of Extinction WUBRG
Legendary Creature — Sliver Queen :special:
Whenever an opponent casts a spell, create a 1/1 colorless Sliver creature token.
C: Sliver Queen, Edge of Extinction gains Hexproof and Indestructible until end of turn.
Whenever a sliver creature is put into your graveyard if your graveyard contains 7 or more Sliver cards, you may exile Sliver Queen, Edge of Extinction then return her to the battlefield transformed under her owner’s control. If you do, create five 1/1 colorless Sliver creature token.
7/7
---Other Side---
Sliver Queen, Swarm Ignited
You get an emblem with “Slivers creatures you control get +1/+1.”
Search your exile, library or graveyard for a Sliver card with converted mana cost three or less and put it into the battlefield. Shuffle your library.
Search your exile, library or graveyard for any number of Sliver creature cards and put them onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library.
Sliver Queen, Evolved 3CWUBRG
Legendary Planeswalker — Sliver Queen :special:
Starting Loyalty: 5
+3: Search your library for a Sliver card with converted mana cost Y or less, put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library. Y is the number of loyalty counters on Sliver Queen, Evolved.
0: Gain control of target permanent. It becomes a Sliver creature with base power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost, in addition to its other types.
-9: You get an emblem with “At the beginning of your end step, create X 1/1 colorless Sliver creature tokens, where X is one plus the number of Slivers you control.”-9:
Sultai Sliver 1GUB
Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Sliver creatures you control have
“When this permanent enters the battlefield you may return target card from your graveyard to your hand.
5, Discard one card from your hand, Exile this permanent: Target player puts the top X cards of their library into their graveyard, where X is the number of Sliver creatures in the battlefield.”
3/3
Temur Sliver 3URG
Creature — Sliver :uncommon:
Cascade. The first Sliver spell you cast each turn has cascade.
Sliver creatures you control have “Haste.
5, Discard one card from your hand, Exile this permanent: Untap target permanent an opponent controls and gain control of it. If it is a creature it gains Sliver in addition to its creature types.”
3/3
Phyrexian Sliver 5H/WH/UH/BH/RH/G
Legendary Creature — Sliver :rare:
(H/W can be paid with either W or 2 life. This card’s converted mana cost is 10.)
Sliver creatures you control have
“Indestructible, Infect”
The source, the line unbroken since the calamity that brought such monsters to our shores.
5/5
Azorius Sliver W/UWU
Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Shroud.
1, Sacrifice this permanent: Put target attacking creature on the top of its owner’s library.”
Union of peace and intellect.
2/2
Dimir Sliver 2U/BUB
Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Unblockable. Whenever this permanent deals combat damage to a player, that player discards a card and you draw a card, unless that player pays 1.
Pay 2 life: Return this permanent to its owner’s hand.”
Union of cunning and logic.
2/2
Rakdos Sliver B/RBR
Creature — Sliver :common:
Slivers creatures you control have
“Wither (It deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.). When this permanent enters the battlefield, you may have it deal 1 damage to any target.”
Union of cunning and fire.
2/2
Gruul Sliver R/GRG
Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Haste.
T: Add C or one mana of any color to your mana pool.”
Union of strength and nature.
2/2
Selesnya Sliver G/WGW
Creature — Sliver :common:
Whenever you cast Selesnya Sliver you may destroy target artifact or enchantment.
Each Sliver card you cast has “Whenever you cast this spell you may destroy target artifact or enchantment.”
Union of nature and peace.
2/2
Orzhov Sliver 1W/BWB
Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“3, Sacrifice this permanent: Destroy target permanent.
5, Exile this permanent: Exile target permanent.”
Union of order and death.
2/2
Izzet Sliver U/RUR
Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: This permanent deals 1 damage to any target.
3, Return this permanent to its owner’s hand: Return target permanent to its owner’s hand.”
Union of logic and fire.
2/2
Golgari Sliver B/GBG
Creature — Sliver :common:
Flash. Each Sliver card you can cast has Flash.
Sliver creatures you control have
“Deathtouch.
T: Exile target card from a graveyard. Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.”
Union of death and regrowth.
2/2
Boros Sliver 2R/WRW
Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Double strike, Haste, Lifelink, Vigilance.”
Union of order and strength.
2/2
Simic Sliver 1G/UGU
Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“When this permanent enters the battlefield, you may reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a land card, put it onto the battlefield. Otherwise, put that card into your hand.”
Union of regrowth and intellect.
2/2
Reaper Sliver 2/W2/U2/B2/R2/G
Legendary Artifact Creature — Sliver :rare:
(2/W can be paid with any two mana or with W. This card’s converted mana cost is 10.)
Sliver creatures you control have
“When this permanent enters the battlefield, you may destroy target permanent.”
The Sliver Queen rejoiced at the idea of the ancient Scarecrow King at harvest.
5/5
Archiving Sliver 3
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Sacrifice this permanent: Draw X+1 cards, then put X cards from your hand on top of your library in any order. Where X is the number of Slivers you control.”
The swarm sees more than others do because they know where to look.
1/1
Chromatic Sliver 4
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
Lands and Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Add C or one mana of any color to your mana pool.”
The swarm requires insatiable curiosity and a good source of light.
1/1
Crucible Sliver 5
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“At the beginning of your upkeep gain 1 life.
T: Put a land card from your graveyard into the battlefield tapped.”
Amidst the darkest ashes grow the strongest slivers.
1/1
Defensive Sliver 6
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Banding, Defender, Devoid, Lifelink, Reach, Shroud, get +0/+4, can block an additional creature each combat, and can block creatures with Shadow and Landwalk.
Q, Sacrifice a land: Add C or one mana of any color to your mana pool.”
1/1
Manareflector Sliver 2
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“Reach. When this permanent enters the battlefield, you may untap target land.”
Quickly slivers became one with nature, drawing power from the land and returning it when needed.
1/1
Sol Sliver 1
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
Sliver creatures you control have
“When this permanent enters the battlefield, you may add C to your mana pool.”
Who needs a ring of solid gold and a distant star? It took the reclusive Sliver Queen an artistic moment to capture rays solid sunlight for the hive.
1/1
Slivervault
Land :common:
T: Add C to your mana pool.
T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast a Sliver spell.
1: Slivervault becomes a 1/1 colorless sliver creature until end of turn. It’s still a land.
Unstable Hive
Land :common:
T: Add C to your mana pool.
T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast a Sliver spell.
9, T, Sacrifice a Unstable Hive: Destroy Target permanent.
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Post by mythwind on Sept 15, 2018 16:33:37 GMT
There are many intended cycles in the new cards, as I was typing them I realized they need to be discussed individually w/o overwhelming with all on a super large post. So lets start with one where comments are being received:
There are "5 Mox-like" Slivers - A sliver mana rock for 0 CMC seemed excessive (specially if it was giving a mana ability to other slivers), that is why I moved to 1 phyrexian mana. I acknowledge its off-color for manadorks outside of green, but this is specifically as in my playgroup there are Moxes and Black Lotuses on early turns accelerating opponent decks (of all colors)... On power level, if at 2 CMC Cryptolith Rite/Gemhide/Manaweft provide bird of paradise mana, at 1 mana, accelerated by paying 2 life, I reduced to a single color and colorless mana.
Pearl Sliver H/W
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
(H/W can be paid with either W or 2 life.)
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Add C or W to your mana pool.”
The Sliver Queen fashioned living jewels to rival the power of the Moxen.
1/1
Sapphire Sliver H/U
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
(H/U can be paid with either U or 2 life.)
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Add C or U to your mana pool.”
The Sliver Queen fashioned living jewels to rival the power of the Moxen.
1/1
Jet Sliver H/B
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
(H/B can be paid with either B or 2 life.)
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Add C or B to your mana pool.”
The Sliver Queen fashioned living jewels to rival the power of the Moxen.
1/1
Ruby Sliver H/R
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
(H/R can be paid with either R or 2 life.)
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Add C or R to your mana pool.”
The Sliver Queen fashioned living jewels to rival the power of the Moxen.
1/1
Emerald Sliver H/G
Artifact Creature — Sliver :common:
(H/G can be paid with either G or 2 life.)
Sliver creatures you control have
“T: Add C or G to your mana pool.”
The Sliver Queen fashioned living jewels to rival the power of the Moxen.
1/1
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Post by fluffydeathbringer on Sept 15, 2018 16:46:22 GMT
jeske while I appreciate that you've joined me in helping out a newcomer, some of the things you've said merit commentary {big ol honking text} - re: Manawake, you are incorrect ( Kruphix, God of Horizons). also your "see above for wording" bit doesn't actually have a wording correction to refer to - Displacer: I never said you were supposed to put reminder text on expert-level keywords (although you should). furthermore champion a Sliver on Sliver tokens is actually pretty neat given the tribe's partial focus on ETB effects - Lawful: formatting the Sliver abilities as "Sliver creatures you control have 'ability'" is actually following the pattern wotc has used for its most recent canon Slivers (see Thorncaster Sliver and Constricting Sliver), and isn't an error to be corrected per se - Peace: this and other rewords you've provided mechanically alter the card in question without saying what you've changed or why, and in the case of ones such as this one and the Sacrificial reword, straightup leave out bits of the card without commentary; Sacrificial's mana ability can also make one mana of any color if the user so desires, and Peace is supposed to give each untapped Sliver a weaker Propaganda: you present a weaker version initially as a "reword", implying such a thing is some objective standard, and only then give the one-sentence comment of "Multiple "Do not attack unless you pay" effects stack." which, to a newcomer to the custom magic scene, will not adequately explain why the card needs to be changed. this is bad practice to do to a newbie who might not have developed the keen critical design sense required to not just take a relatively more veteran poster's word as gospel - Discovery: "As written, Discovery would make you draw multiple cards every time you attacked, blocked, or added a new Sliver to the hive" this is a misread of the card. the card says that it gives each Sliver the ability "whenever this permanent etbs, attacks, or blocks", meaning that each individual ETB, attack, and block only yields one card. - Misthollow: your reword is misleading. effects that let you cast things from zones in a fucky manner are worded "you may cast CARDNAME/nonland cards from <zone>" (see Squee the Immortal and Abandoned Sarcophagus), necessitating a new sentence for the ability that lets you cast Slivers from exile - Spirit: either you have misread the card or this is another one of those rewords where you just alter the effect and present it as the objective power level for that effect: the first ability of this card adds one mana of any color, not RR - Earlbrood: "As Utvara doesn't have Sliverlink it makes sense Earlbrood shouldn't either." Utvara and Earlbrood's token generation abilities function differently, so naturally Utvara would not have the same keyword Earlbrood has. (also, I for one think Sliverlink is a fine name.) - Manastone: you present the order as "add colored mana and C" here and "add C or colored mana" in the previous one. so far there is no precedent for cards that can add either colorless or colored within one ability so either's fine - "From here on I will provide rewordings and explain, in detail, what is wrong with the card." im...plying you weren't before? commentary should be going into the requisite detail every time
- Abzan: so your first conceit is "lifegain 'for its own sake' is bad because alternate wincons exist". I will be blunt. this vein of commentary is helpful in absolutely no way. the same rhetoric can be used to reject out of hand essentially any design element. why care about instants and sorceries when alternate wincons exist? why go wide when my opponent can just combo me out with a door to nothingness? lifegain may not win games on its own, but not everything has to. counterspells don't. fixing and scry don't. these elements are there to facilitate you being able to win the game. they're your shield, not your sword. - Bant: I won't get too pedantic about wordingshit but there's a wrong thing in your reword: "this permanent untaps>untap this permanent" - Esper: anoter reword inconsistency; you write the Slivers gaining the two quoted abilities as two statics in this one and one static in Bant. the reason I bring this up is that when you present your commentary as a "reword", one expects (or at least I expect) it to portray a consistent wording pattern that is to be emulated - Grixis: this made me realize that the second conceit you had about Abzan makes no sense. these cards are all Sliver tribals. they care about Slivers. if you need another Sliver to join the benefit family, you can just. play another Sliver. you don't need to make something a Sliver with the Stalactite - Mardu: ...yes, disrupt decorum is card that exists. this ability is clearly intended to be a port of that into repeatable form. are you suggesting that this ability is undercosted? out of color? what is happening here - Sultai: minor thing and actually related to a question to the creator: the reword abbreviates "Sliver creatures" to "Slivers" but there are two planeswalkers in the set with the Sliver subtype. are these intended to receive the Sliver buff but not given it due to a typo, or is it meant to be only for the creatures - Temur: another one of them "doesn't explain enough to a clear newcomer to custom design" things. I agree that a nonlegendary creature giving the first sliver spell cascade is bonkers good because it can stack, but as written this reads as "cascade = automatically bad design", which is bad advice. cascade can be used in balanced cards. it would behoove more experienced designers to explain why certain things are inadvisable, and how to make the concept work - Phyrexian: why does it need to not use phyrexian mana. again, this reads as "phyrexian mana = automatically bad design", which isn't helpful to beginners. - Azorius: I do not mean to consecutively mention this one specific thing but why does it need to swap shroud for hexproof. wotc obsoleted shroud for a reason, we who are more in the know know that, but it's not necessarily intuitive to someone who's just getting started. assuming that everyone is on the same level of expertise as you is bad advice practice, if they were on the same expertise level as you they would not need to advice to begin with - Dimir: ""Unblockable" isn't a keyword and never will be because there's ways to block unblockable creatures (generally with spells)." ...plenty of creatures have "This creature can't be blocked" and there are only four effects in the whole game that make unblocked creatures blocked, the latest of which came from the original Ravnica block 12 years ago. with all due respect to you, "making unblockable creatures is bad because there's spells that can make things be blocked" is also bad advice in general. there is a hoser for everything you can think of. - Selesnya: another one of those rewords that presents a mechanically completely different version sans commentary as if it's more compliant to an objective standard. or a misread. the original gives the effect to sliver spells you cast and is a cast trigger on the card proper. - Golgari: "Why the hell does a Golgari-oriented Sliver have flash?" why... wouldn't it. why is flash such a non-Golgari keyword that you are driven to curse words by the sheer violation of it all. "The mana generated should be Golgari colours." again, why is this. one of the most iconic golgari cards, Deathrite Shaman, makes mana of any color - Boros: okay but why is a design with several evergreens bad and intrinsically ax-worthy. at this point I do actually mean to harp on this one point. you make these comments but you don't give a justification for why certain things are auto-omissions. this is bad commentary form. also bad commentary form: making "tee hee I could be making a joke about police brutality, but I'm not going to" style quips. you're already making the joke comparison by doing this. you could've easily just actually not done this and thus detracted from the commentary. - Archiving: your comment scenario will hardly ever be relevant. they can just. not activate the ability when they enter that situation.
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Post by mythwind on Sept 15, 2018 19:15:40 GMT
I learned a lot with this post and will probably need to reboot the thread later in the weekend, in a more ordered fashion, to help me and all that are interested on the Slivers topic.
(i) Do not overwhelm audience with 60+ cards in one post - its a lot of work for you guys and I thank all of you that looked into so much information; I will aim not to do that again.
(ii) MSE actually has ways to export cards to be friendly on this forum, like - Export->HTML has some options I found very useful like making a txt file. While I played with the templates, getting good images and crediting artists image files did get big and I got wrapped with the 3 attachment rule making a mess on my initial postings.
(iii) I should explain what cards I am trying to make into Sliver form, explain the end result, pass along my design and power level considerations as some cards are meant to be very powerful - but most are based on cards that already exist. probably make a post relating to each cycle.
(iv) I am thankful to the community. I am humble on how much I do not know for proper MTG wording. Such as Capital letters use, keyword reminder text use, spacing, etc... I think I am fairly fluent in English, but it is still my second language and your comments here are greatly appreciated. Creating complex mechanics can only work if they are clearly understood.
To finish this --- > Hello from Mexico!!
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Post by Jéské Couriano on Sept 16, 2018 7:09:18 GMT
Fluffy ) In my defence, I was looking for pinholes in my eyelids when I wrote the lot of them.
Manawake ) I try to forget Theros block as much as possible. In all seriousness, I didn't realise Kruphix had that ability, but the fact it's on a mythic legendary permanent is a strike against Manawake - which is an uncommon nonlegendary - having that ability, since any abilities that allow mana to be kept indefinitely are generally  or higher.
Displacer ) Ordinarily I would agree with you but Slivers' nature means that you're usually (temporarily) weakening the entire hive. You'd need a vanilla sliver (like Venser's Sliver), a sliver token, or a disposable Changeling creature for it to not be a significant resource investment.
Lawful ) I will defend my wording as being cleaner than what was present (The two abilities together parse as a non sequitur written as they were), still being in-flavour, and not being any mechanically different. Either way, removing the Lawful removes the ability.
Peace ) I was actually trying to find a section in the comprehensive rules to explain this, but the sections I did find would have been unhelpful to him; I had to read them multiple times to realise they were what I was looking for. (508.1c and 508.1h, for the record.) I normally don't mind throwing out Comp. Rules section numbers because the sections are usually fairly clear, but in this case it would have caused more confusion.
Discovery ) I will concede that point and rescind that criticism. I should note that the card in the set file also has a glaring typo which doesn't help.
Misthollow ) Fair, I will concede that one.
Reanimating ) I will concede that one, but the wording from "you may pay[...]" onwards is, as far as I know, the best way to word that specific effect.
Spirit ) This is a misread.
Earlbrood ) Likewise, this is a misread of Utvara's ability. I will rescind that criticism.
Manastone ) I legitimately don't know which of the two ways is cleaner; I think my mind changed between looking at those cards, but I'm leaning towards "[...]  or one mana of any color". Either works, you're right, but this is more a matter of which scans better.
Abzan ) Don't get me wrong, lifegain is fine if it's part of a wincon or overall strategy (i.e. Orzhov-style life loss decks). But even then large amounts of lifegain at once with no rider effects or ways to exploit that lifegain (such as Serra Avatar or Tree of Redemption) isn't immediately helpful in most circumstances, and that is the crux of my criticism here.
Esper ) This is on me. I think I was starting to really fight sleep at this point.
Grixis ) I will point out my defence to the Displacer above. My thought on that was actually to put something onto the battlefield which passively generates disposable tokens ( Honden of Life's Web) and put the 'tite on it, basically to limit damage dealt to the hive. I envision the lot of the cycle (sans Jeskai) being more of the "draw-go" persuasion - something you do when you don't need to cast any more spells.
Mardu ) What was happening there is I was being an idiot. I'll clarify here: Disrupt Decorum costs 4 for its effect. I would argue that the recursive ability may be slightly undercosted, but this is a YMMV thing and it's possible it could get away with 5 mana given the additional costs. Playtesting would be needed for this.
Temur ) True. I'll explain as best I can. Cascade is a mechanic that Mark Rosewater [M:tG's head designer, and the person whose educated opinions are the basis of the Storm Scale --Bori] has explicitly called "developmentally dangerous" ( markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/129313669548/was-cascade-well-received-where-is-it-on-the ) which implies the issue with Cascade is one of balancing. Unlike other mechanics, Cascade only gets more powerful if the cost of the card goes up (since it means it can fetch more spells), making mana cost an ineffective means of balancing cards with it. Second, Cascade triggers when cast by another Cascade card. Therefore, the question becomes, "At which point does Cascade become more than merely good?" My personal take on it is that anything with CMC 5 is borderline and 6 is problematic, of which there're 22 Slivers at that point (CMC >5) in regular Magic and 21 in the set. Of those 22 Slivers are Ward, Lymph, and Fury, as well as the four legendaries (which I'm generally not as concerned about save for Hivelord), all of which make it much harder to break a hive and, with Cascade, can pull out a smaller support Sliver - which will itself cascade due to how the mechanic works.
Phyrexian ) The issue with Phymana is it's very difficult to balance around due to the ability to pay life to pay for the mana. This is why Dismember became such a headache while New Phyrexia was in Standard, with many players paying the 4 life to be able to kill anything with 5 or less toughness with one generic mana. Something that grants every creature you control both indestructible and infect indefinitely should not be able to cost just five generic mana, even at a cost of 10 life. |
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Post by mythwind on Jun 2, 2019 16:29:58 GMT
Jéské Couriano I did not expect "The First Sliver" after your comments on cascade...
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, 
: Exile target creature, then return it to the battlefield tapped under its owner's control."
. If you do, shuffle all cards you own in exile into your library.
